The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2020/21

    Matchday 1 - 90/220 = 40.9% (completed )
    Matchday 2 - 79/220 = 35.9%
    Matchday 3 - 80/220 = 36.4%
    Matchday 4 - 80/220 = 36.4%
    Matchday 5 - 81/220 = 36.8%
    Matchday 6 - 82/220 = 37.3%
    Matchday 7 - 90/220 = 40.9%
    Matchday 8 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 9 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 10 - 85/220 = 38,6%
    Matchday 11 - 84/220 = 38.2% ( completed )
    Matchday 12 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 13 - 88/220 = 40%
    Matchday 14 - 88/220 = 40%
    Matchday 15 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 16 - 89/220 = 40.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 17 - 84/220 = 38.2% ( completed )
    Matchday 18 - 87/220 = 39.5% ( completed )
    Matchday 19 - 83/220 = 37.7% ( completed )
    Matchday 20 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 21 - 81/220 = 36.8%
    Matchday 22 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 23 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 24 - 87/220 = 39.5%
    Matchday 25 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 26 - 78/220 = 35.4%
    Matchday 27 - 75/220 = 34.1%
    Matchday 28 - 79/220 = 35.9%
    Matchday 29 - 80/220 = 36.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 30 - 76/220 = 34.5%
    Matchday 31 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 32 - 80/220 = 36.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 33 - 73/220 = 33.2%
    Matchday 34 - 77/220 = 35% ( completed )
    Matchday 35 - 82/220 = 37.3%
     
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  2. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    Marcho Gamgee and ChristianSur repped this.
  3. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    I think tosin needs to leave Fulham in the summer if he wants an England career
     
  4. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2020/21

    Matchday 1 - 90/220 = 40.9% (completed )
    Matchday 2 - 79/220 = 35.9%
    Matchday 3 - 80/220 = 36.4%
    Matchday 4 - 80/220 = 36.4%
    Matchday 5 - 81/220 = 36.8%
    Matchday 6 - 82/220 = 37.3%
    Matchday 7 - 90/220 = 40.9%
    Matchday 8 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 9 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 10 - 85/220 = 38,6%
    Matchday 11 - 84/220 = 38.2% ( completed )
    Matchday 12 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 13 - 88/220 = 40%
    Matchday 14 - 88/220 = 40%
    Matchday 15 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 16 - 89/220 = 40.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 17 - 84/220 = 38.2% ( completed )
    Matchday 18 - 87/220 = 39.5% ( completed )
    Matchday 19 - 83/220 = 37.7% ( completed )
    Matchday 20 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 21 - 81/220 = 36.8%
    Matchday 22 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 23 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 24 - 87/220 = 39.5%
    Matchday 25 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 26 - 78/220 = 35.4%
    Matchday 27 - 75/220 = 34.1%
    Matchday 28 - 79/220 = 35.9%
    Matchday 29 - 80/220 = 36.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 30 - 76/220 = 34.5%
    Matchday 31 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 32 - 80/220 = 36.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 33 - 73/220 = 33.2%
    Matchday 34 - 77/220 = 35% ( completed )
    Matchday 35 - 82/220 = 37.3%
    Matchday 36 - 87/220 = 39.5%
     
  5. Slater582

    Slater582 Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Shrewsbury, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Don't know but it seems Arsenal fired him a couple of years ago.:cautious:



    That tweet is from Dave Reddin, former member of the technical staff at St George's Park, criticising the way he was appointed.
     
  6. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
     
  7. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Spotted on the other side:

     
  8. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Thats seems like quite a turnaround as a few years ago you wouldn’t find English players so high on these type of lists, especially for the minutes played for U23’s in the top 5 leagues. Even though France is way out in front, we would always lag behind the others by some distance so this is encouraging.
     
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  9. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I really hope Blackpool get promoted to the Championship as I think they will be a really good Club for Premier League teams to send youngsters to and play for Neil Critchley next season. On the way up again are the Seasiders!
     
  10. Fullerov

    Fullerov Member

    Bristol Rovers
    Nov 30, 2004
    Club:
    Bristol Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not sure if Nuno leaving Wolves will be a good thing or not for England. Sound like the replacements being considered are also Portuguese and perhaps just as reluctant to bring through academy players.
     
  11. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yep, you can bet it will be another Portuguese manager followed by another 5 Portuguese players so that crooked agent can make his money this Summer.
     
  12. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2020/21

    Matchday 1 - 90/220 = 40.9% (completed )
    Matchday 2 - 79/220 = 35.9%
    Matchday 3 - 80/220 = 36.4%
    Matchday 4 - 80/220 = 36.4%
    Matchday 5 - 81/220 = 36.8%
    Matchday 6 - 82/220 = 37.3%
    Matchday 7 - 90/220 = 40.9%
    Matchday 8 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 9 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 10 - 85/220 = 38,6%
    Matchday 11 - 84/220 = 38.2% ( completed )
    Matchday 12 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 13 - 88/220 = 40%
    Matchday 14 - 88/220 = 40%
    Matchday 15 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 16 - 89/220 = 40.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 17 - 84/220 = 38.2% ( completed )
    Matchday 18 - 87/220 = 39.5% ( completed )
    Matchday 19 - 83/220 = 37.7% ( completed )
    Matchday 20 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 21 - 81/220 = 36.8%
    Matchday 22 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 23 - 92/220 = 41.8%
    Matchday 24 - 87/220 = 39.5%
    Matchday 25 - 86/220 = 39%
    Matchday 26 - 78/220 = 35.4%
    Matchday 27 - 75/220 = 34.1%
    Matchday 28 - 79/220 = 35.9%
    Matchday 29 - 80/220 = 36.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 30 - 76/220 = 34.5%
    Matchday 31 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 32 - 80/220 = 36.4% ( completed )
    Matchday 33 - 73/220 = 33.2%
    Matchday 34 - 77/220 = 35% ( completed )
    Matchday 35 - 82/220 = 37.3%
    Matchday 36 - 87/220 = 39.5%
    Matchday 37 - 91/220 = 41.3%
    Matchday 38 - 87/220 = 39.5%
     
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  13. Juni

    Juni Member+

    Nov 26, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Great work all season. I plotted a simple line graph to show the weekly fluctuations.

    startersplot.PNG
     
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  14. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It almost looks like the English lads were either hurt or dropped In the most important games running to the title?
     
  15. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    James Vaughan retired today. Youngest PL goal scorer.

     
  16. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Ok, so overall for the season 2020/21, the average throughout the season for eligible players starting who are English qualified was 37.97% or 3175/8360. Overall I think that’s a good season and probably the best for a good number of years but since I only started to do this recently it’s hard to accurately gauge. 2019/2020 had figures of 35.45% or 2964/8360 so it’s a marked improvement. Let’s hope we continue in a upward direction next season.

    ps: thanks for the graph @Juni really appreciate it :)
     
  17. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    From when I was doing the weekly count and from my observations I would say the drop was mainly through injuries. Take Leicester for example, earlier in the season they regularly started Justin, Maddison, Barnes, and Vardy but during that dip obviously three of them got injured, two long term and then Leicester was reduced to just the one starter in Vardy ( later Thomas started more games and occasionally Albrighton) and technically he has retired even though I didn’t discount him from the statistics because he could reverse his decision. There were also others that got injuries like Villa who were missing English players throughout that period. Just to note, during the boom towards the end Wolves actually started four English players in one game which was a surprise and partly the reason in the upward spike.
     
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  18. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
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  19. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    More numbers from between 2000 and 2008: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7417746.stm

    They use total number of English players to start at least one game as the metric which isn't very helpful but if you use the average number of English starters graph half way down the page you can work out 2007/08 had 36.7% English starters and it's reasonable to assume that was a historic low at that point.
     
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  20. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    #2745 Marcho Gamgee, May 27, 2021
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
    It will be interesting to see what happens next season since we are losing Sheffield Utd, West Brom and Fulham who all contributed in quite high scores. West Brom and Sheffield Utd regularly contributed around 5 or 6 per game with Fulham a little less with 3, sometimes 4. My concern is the teams coming up don’t fill me with confidence for helping with the statistics. Norwich had around 3 or four players in the Championship including the loanee in Skipp and Watford again somewhere around 3 or 4. With regarding the playoffs, if you care about the numbers then Brentford wouldn’t be good news as basically they pull up the same as Wolves (1), they seem to have more faith in Danish players but they have had injuries to Josh Dasilva and Rico Henry so maybe it’s a bit unfair. Funnily enough, the other team in the playoffs that isn’t based in England, Swansea pulls up good numbers usually around 5 or 6 English eligible players so in regard to the numbers, you would probably want Swansea to go up. However unless there’s a change in trend with those Clubs coming up, I anticipate the numbers will go down slightly next season but it is early days and we have to see what happens in the transfer market this Summer.
     
  21. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Brentford is an interesting one to me. They might not have many English players but they do create opportunities for English players that deserve opportunities. Their stat driven approach means they have a higher than average hit rate with transfers and they don't turn their noses up at lower league English players like some clubs do.

    Brentford gave Ollie Watkins an opportunity to step up two divisions and now he's in the England squad. They replaced him with another lower league player in Ivan Toney who broke Championship records at his first attempt.
     
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  22. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Woke up this morning feeling nostalgia about the U17 World Cup so decided to watch the highlights of the tournament.



    After watching it, it got me thinking about where the players are now with their development and progression? Obviously no need to dwell on Foden, Sancho, CHO etc who are doing nicely and even others that seem to be on a steady progression at least but what about the other 2000 born players that seem to have disappointingly dropped off a cliff and is there any hope for them to make the Premier League?

    Players like George McEachran, Nya Kirby and Oakley-Boothe seem to be particularly disappointing considering what they were like back in their U17 days. Can’t believe McEachran is still playing U23 football tbh. Curtis Anderson is another one that seems to be on loan in the Southern League. Any hope for these guys?
     
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  23. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #2748 MrSnrub, May 29, 2021
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
    I think this is just the usual way it goes with under 17 sides, the vast majority fall by the wayside. Frankly we did well to get the two biggest talents to seemingly be living up to their potential, that often doesn't happen so often. Then hopefully at least Guehi seems to be on the same elite talent path, although next season will be the big test of that. Compare to the 2014 side for example where none of the big talents bar the injury prone Gomez came close to their potential.

    Pretty interesting to look around at the star strikers from that tournament. Brewster, Ruiz, Arp, and Gouri. Gouri has started living up to his potential (though probably no longer considered in the top tier of talents for his generation) but the others all really struggled with senior football so far.
     
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  24. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    We always struggle to bring through our CM’s from U17 level. Some almost have to completely alter their style or change position because they aren’t trusted. The physical and athletic demands of senior football are obviously also an issue.

    TOB probably should have tried somewhere abroad. Not saying it would have worked but if Angel Gomes had stayed in England I doubt he would have been in a better position than now with a decent amount of game time under his belt.

    We didn’t take many full backs at all. So not shocking we didn’t have success there.

    Goalkeeper isn’t really a shock Anderson did OK but he wasn’t a standout.

    Not many on here were very positive about Brewster’s overall game even when he was scoring in the finals. Add in the injuries he’s had and his career has gone pretty well.

    Players like ESR, MGW and Gallagher always looked like they would suit PL in their style of play.

    Can’t think of anyone else. Maybe Panzo who has had a few good displays but struggled. Still he could stick with the U21’s again.
     
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  25. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    If you get two players the level of Foden and Sancho out of a single year group you’ve basically struck gold. Only Torres and Garcia have made much of a name for themselves from that Spanish group that contested with England so far. Torres is a good player but Garcia is pretty pony.
     
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