The On-going Never-ending Brexit Story Part Four

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Jun 27, 2022.

Page 36 of 164
  1. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #876 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 5, 2022
    Unattractive but probably good politics at this point. It cuts the ground beneath the tory line that labour is more interested in foreigners than they are in the voters here. Also it points out the tories HAVE been in power for 12 years so if THEY say it's a problem, (regardless of whether it is), why haven't they done something about it before?
     
    American Brummie and The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #877 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 5, 2022
    Someone pointed out before, though, that's also largely a function of the fact that he can tell who's likely to win a GE and jumps to 'support' the winning side.

    In football terms it's like he's a plastic who now supports citeh but used to support yanited when sir red nose was in charge.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #878 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 5, 2022
    Classic Dom wades in - of course no 10 looks exactly like what you get after 6 years of vote leave :ROFLMAO:

     
    Naughtius Maximus repped this.
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #879 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 5, 2022
    IMO the problem for Truss is she has no credible narrative to sell her nonsense.

    It's not as if conservative policy has to be reality based these days, but if you are actually running the government and not in opposition like the GOP, it becomes obvious in 2s in your plan is simply tax cuts and slashed public spending.

    What get's overlooked is in the 80s, the likes of Thatcher and other neo-libs had opportunities which were very real for voters. e.g. unions were powerful, there were large public monopolies, top tax rates were high... my family paid 66% and were were not rich! Pegged currencies, crappy rules and regulations around starting businesses etc etc etc

    None of that applies now.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #880 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 5, 2022
    I agree he is good at choosing his moment, but I do think in the 90s, he clearly saw that the 3rd way was advantageous to him, whereas the Tories were spent and irrelevant
     
  6. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #881 JamesA, Oct 5, 2022
    You oversell too much methinks. The problem for Truss is far more fundamental.

    She has next to zero charisma and frequently comes across sounding clueless and highly scripted.

    She couldn't sell the best of situations to a populace from a political perspective.
     
  7. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    #882 Q*bert Jones III, Oct 5, 2022
    She has dead eyes.
     
    The Jitty Slitter, M and American Brummie repped this.
  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #883 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 5, 2022
    She is very unpopular with the country at large - since the start - but at least in the leadership race her media handling was OK. I think where she really went off the deep end is failing to come up with any believable narrative for her agenda that her own party, markets, tory elites, could get behind.

    Now everyone hates her - she didn't meed to fail this badly.
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #884 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 5, 2022
    The other point about this latest debacle is that it's one thing to come up with a line for the rubes and even your own party. It's a TOTALLY different thing to try and fool the markets that you can cut taxes AND increase spending AND be sure of playing them back.

    The rubes will believe the 'magic sauce' of 'growth' but people with money and expertise in economics will know that's bullshit. At some point you're going to have to tell them that you're going to, (for instance), cut public spending.
     
  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #885 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 5, 2022
    But that's the thing - i don't think even the rubes will believe it.

    In the recent past the tories have convinced the general public of the need to be financially responsible in order for the economy to be great i.e, the great hoax of expansionary austerity - but that smoke and mirrors worked because it appeals to mythology that money is being wasted on undeserved poor people and that the middle class voters will benefit from steady business first economic management - then of course being surprised when the NHS becomes shit

    Now truss comes around and says she needs to increase debt, slash spending on creaking services, and give tax cuts to the rich during a massive cost of living and energy crisis ...

    That is just not believable IMO

    I think she would have needed to lead on her industrial policy to at least have some kind of story - Classic Dom's moonshot style ideas are much closer to the economic populism you could sell

    Now its too late - she defined the narrative in a disastrous way
     
  11. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    #886 lanman, Oct 5, 2022
    Disagree. This was on opportunity to take control of the narrative. Highlight that the increase in channel crossings is down to the Tories closing the safe routes of asylum.
    State that Labour would work with France so that the genuine asylum seekers are taken out of criminal hands and allow them to focus purely on the illegals.
    The Tory right have painted the issue as black and white, and they are dominating the discussion. Simply focussing on what they want to focus on does nothing. The ex UKIP/Brexit Party voters aren't going to shift to Labour - they want the cruelty and Labour don't need them.
    Even people like Roger Gale can see this is the wrong approach.

     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #887 soccernutter, Oct 5, 2022
    I would argue that, while there are institutions/institutional thinking which may be are larger cause, the withdrawal from the EU was the trigger on credibility.
     
    The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #888 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 5, 2022
    But that's what I'm saying... initially she didn't say she was going to slash spending so the obvious question for anyone being asked to lend money to us is, how will you pay us back? It was only later we got all this, 'We'll cut waste' and 'Efficiency savings', stuff in the mini-budget. That was why the pound tanked.
     
    The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #889 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 5, 2022
    All of that has been said by labour and others for years. In that interview she mentions that the tories have had years to speed up the processing of asylum claims and haven't done it which was a reasonable point to raise.
    It's easy for people like Gayle to wave his hand in a dismissive gesture because we ALL know he'll still vote for whatever a tory HS wants to push through. Labour doesn't have that luxury.
     
  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #890 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 5, 2022
    Well, this collapse in the pound started on 23rd Sept this year which was after the mini-budget and more than 6 years after the brexit vote.

    So I agree it's a developing story and this is just the latest part of it but let''s not pretend there was anything inevitable in this latest fiasco.

    TBH, Truss has tried to blame the war in Ukraine. She's also blamed covid but the thing is those were both in existence on 22nd Sept as well and the pound hadn't collapsed so I think we need to be careful not to jump on our own bandwagon to push our narrative the same as she is... which is not to say they're not a part of it, obviously.
     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #891 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 6, 2022
    Agreed

    They haven't sold a vision - rather they tanked the market with fantasy talk, then were forced to promise cuts which no one believes they can really deliver. So now the whole thing is in ruins.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #892 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 6, 2022
    This was quite specific.

    The chancellor proposed massive deficit spending, without realistic off ramp, so therefore market participants repriced UK debt accordingly which caused a crisis in the gilt/pensions market.

    Basically his fiscal plan was seen as non-credible, which caused a gilt crisis when borrowing costs were repriced to reflect the new level of risk.
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #893 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 6, 2022
    Agreed

    This had nothing to do with Brexit. The new chancellor/PM announced a massive fiscal assistance for the energy crisis AND a big erosion of the tax base - with no credible plan to finance everything, at a time of rising interest rates
     
  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #894 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 6, 2022
    Someone pointed out, it's strange that 'the markets' people, (the tories IOW), didn't seem to understand 'the markets'.
     
    Mike03 and The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  20. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #895 Naughtius Maximus, Oct 6, 2022
    Yeah, although it's fair to say that it and a lot of what the tories have done since brexit are 'of a piece', shall we say. There's what one might call 'a theme' in the thinking which seems to consider reality as very much an optional extra.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #896 The Jitty Slitter, Oct 6, 2022
    Strong magic unicorns in the sunlit uplands vibes
     
    Naughtius Maximus and song219 repped this.
  22. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #897 American Brummie, Oct 6, 2022
    How long can a party polling in the teens claim a mandate, I'll ask in a few weeks...
     

    Attached Files:

  23. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    #898 lanman, Oct 6, 2022
    Naughtius Maximus repped this.
  24. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    #899 lanman, Oct 6, 2022
    Interesting polling results

     
  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria Member+

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #900 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 6, 2022
    How would you rate the avg Tory compared to our deplorable Trumpanzees?
     
Page 36 of 164

Share This Page