The Olympics

I agree---the time is now for them to make a push. The guys who end up on the qualifying team have a great chance of making it to Athens, although there will be MLS pre-season + 4months of the regular season before the games begin to fine tune the roster.

DMB played in qualifying but wasn't quite ready to make the jump...

Cherundolo also played in qualifying but then blew his knee out in the spring European season of that year.

 

i don't like the US's chances in a youth event like this one. U23 or not. i expect Africans will again make a good showing.

 

We tied the eventual champion Cameroon in group play last time, and made it to the semi finals.

 

Both Casey and Whitfield were called into camps prior to WC2002. Neither played in any games. I don't think either one were part of WCQ camps, just camps before friendlies. I also don't remember the timing of their call-ups; pre-Olys (Whitfield maybe) or post-Olys (Casey probably).

Ramiro Corrales has 3 caps for the USNT. All under Steve Sampson. He has yet to be called by Arena.

To my knowledge DiGiamarino has never been in Senior USNT camp.

You are forgetting about two other Oly team members, Tim Howard and Matt Napoleon. Howard was the #2 'keeper behind Friedel and Napoleon was the #3.

Napoloen slipped into the squad when Adin Brown was injured. Brown was slated to be the #2 'keeper at the Oly's (Howard was #3) behind Friedel.

DaMarcus Beasley was actually an alternate on the Oly squad. As was Chris Brown (never called-up by Arena) and Brian Winters (never called-up by Arena).

Other players that were in the 2000 U23 player pool, though not on the final roster (mainly pool players that had a good shot at the Oly qualifying tourney and/or the final squad)...

Steve Cherundolo: as previously mentioned in another post, he was the starting right back until injured. Part of the qualifying squad.

Matt Chulis: no USNT call-up.

Eric Denton: no USNT call-up. He was part of the qualifying squad.

Carlos Parra: no USNT call-up.

John Thorrington: was a good bet to be in the final squad until injured. Was part of the qualifying squad. Has been called-up by Arena.

Brian West: Has been called-up by Arena and has played. One could argue he was in the mix to make the WC2002 squad - however, way down on the totem pole.

Some others that were in the build-up during 1999 and actually played for the U23s in an International Friendly or PanAm Games...

Nelson Akwari (with Columbus)
*Carlos Bocanegra (with Chicago)
Scott Bower (in camp with San Jose)
Jason Cropley (who?)
Ryan Futagaki (with Chicago)
*Cory Gibbs (with St. Pauli - GER)
Jason Moore (in camp with Los Angeles)
Antonio Otero (last seen with DC United in 2000)
Michael Preis (who?)
Tim Sahaydak (with Pittsburgh last season - ALGE)
Steve Shak (with Colorado)
*Taylor Twellman (with New England)
Kirk Wilson (with Rochester last season - ALGE)

*Called-up by Arena. Bocanegra was called-up prior to WC2002 and was on a match-day roster for a WCQ, IIRC. Gibbs never made it to camp (pre WC2002) due to an injury. Twellman is a post WC2002 call-up.

Of the 38 players that played for the U23 USNT in 1999-2000, 21 have been called-up for a Senior USNT camp.

As Nutmeg mostly pointed out, most (18) were in the final squad/pool or would've been if not for injury.

I could only think of one player that should have been looked at by Clive Charles back in 1999-00. I don't remember if he was in a called-up for an U23 camp, but Nick Garcia is a name that is missing.

 

We actually won the group, ahead of Cameroon.

And, by the way, the UEFA U23 (technically I should say U21) Runner-up - the Czech Republic - finished fourth in the same group.

Then the U23's knocked out a highly hyped Japanese team in the quarterfinals on pk's.

It's not like the U.S. U23's slipped by some minnows in finishing 4th.

The U.S. doesn't have a chance at the Oly's! Whatever!!!!

Now if astabo0t means "winning Gold" when he says "I don't like the U.S. chances", then I might agree. Frankly, I wouldn't bet on the U.S. winning Gold, but making the medal-round? You bet!

Not getting out of group play would be a let down, unless we were in a group with Brazil, Japan, and Greece.

 

Any guesses on lineups? Will young guys like Donovan and Beasley go?

Who are the leading candidates for forward?

Donovan - Casey up top or Donovan - Buddle would be my guess.

Maybe this is where Ed Johnson steps up his game and breaks out of his shell. Quaranta could leave his mark too.

I am nervous that EJ may become the next Jamar Beasley. However, I believe he can become the man too.

Is Gibbs too old to play?

 

do you think that this will be the tournament where we let the young guys got at it alone and not bring in the two (three?) overage players (like Friedel last time)?

also, wouldn't landon be under 23 by that time. he'd be a ringer, technically, since he doesn't play on the team full time but he's under 23.

i know we all shudder to hear his name find its way into another tread ... but what about freddy?

 

I think Nike and NBC will force him on the team for marketing reasons only.

 

Where'd Astabot go?

 

Im sorry for asking because this may have been answered before, I was wondering when compared w/ the World Cup and the several Under Group Tournaments, are the Olympics for soccer recognizable internationally as the "event to win"?
The World Cup has the best players, is it the same w/the Olympics?

 

Nope... A lot of the top teams, Brazil, England, and Germany for example, don't really care much for the Olympics and don't send the best squad that they could. Spain, Portugal and Argentina are more serious sometimes, but they don't try as hard as we do... Most footballing countries concentrate on the World Cup and don't think that winning a gold medal in the Olympics is anywhere near as important.

 

You're full of it!

Brazil sent their Olympic to the Gold Cup in 1996 in preparation for the Olympics later that year. The same is being this year at the Gold Cup for the 2004 Oly's.

In 2000 they were such extreme pressure to win, the media and public were pissed when they were knocked out by Cameroon in the quarters. Brazil had a strong squad.

England can't qualify for the Oly's. You don't know what you're talking about.

In 2000, Spain did limit - at the behest of the clubs - the number of players that could be called-up from each club. You're point is more valid here.

However, Italy delayed the start of the 2000-01 Serie A until after the Oly's were finished so that their team could be at full strength.

IIRC, the Czech Republic held out one or two (Rosicky was one) of their top U23 in 2000, but they were included in the Euro 2000 squad - which is more important than the Oly's.

 

The Czech Republic held him out or Dortmund pressured the hell out of the CR to leave him out?

Tons of teams took the Olympics seriously. Nakata and Ono played for Japan IIRC---Nakata missed the PK in the quarterfinals.

 

Most, if not all European leagues will be into their season during the Olympics so clubs are not going to release players other than fringe players (which I think is why it's an U-23 tournament).
England can't send a team as there isn't an England Olympic team (for any sport).

This really could be America's chance to get a lot of media attention in the US. Because the other teams won't be as good as world cup squads you'd have to fancy the US team's chances of doing well, and I'd imagine that the general US public, who only have a dim awareness of the world cup, would be more impressed by a good Olympic performance than last year's world cup run. And because, from what I've read on here mainly, the media awareness/interest in soccer seems to have increased since last summer, the chances of a cup run getting good coverage is much higher.

 

For your edification and reading enjoyment, here is one man's rundown of the Olympic pool, position by position. As always, comments, suggestions and differing opinions are welcome!

FORWARD -
This is still the 23s deepest position and it only seems to get deeper. Landon Donovan (San Jose) alone makes this position a strength but toss in Edson Buddle (Columbus), Conor Casey (Hanover), Eddie Johnson (Dallas), Santino "Pops" Quaranta (DC), Nate Jaqua (Chicago), Alecko Eskandarian (DC), Jason Thompson (Dallas), Roger Levesque (San Jose) and Mike Magee (NY/NJ) and it only gets better and deeper. Some very good players are going to be left off because of the depth the US has at this position, and that was before Casey Schmidt (Colorado) burst onto the scene with his eye-opening performance this spring. The depth is so great that Danny Karbassiyoon, who is good enough to earn a contract from Arsenal, has yet to be called into either the U23 or U20 camps.

ATTACKING CENTER MID -
Because of the aforementioned forward depth, Donovan could slip back into this position to allow two other talented strikers to get on the field and still have Donovan on the field. The versatile Bobby Convey (DC) is a strong bet to play here but he could also be in 3 other positions. Kyle Martino (Columbus) and Kyle Beckerman (Colorado) are natural playmakers. Other pro candidates are David Johnson (Willem II), Trevor Perea (Columbus) and Raul Palomares (NK Zepce), while college players Justin Moose (Wake Forest), Ned Grabavoy (Indiana) and Andres Rota (Connecticut) are very long shots.

LEFT MID -
DaMarcus Beasley (Chicago) is the clear first choice but Convey, Brad Davis (Dallas) and Justin Mapp (Chicago) are all capable of pushing him and any of them could end up playing here if Beasley is moved to the right. Like forward, at least one talented player at this position is staying home.

RIGHT MID -
The biggest question mark of the U23 pool, by far. The best natural right wing appears to be Adolfo Gregorio (UCLA) but unless he goes pro soon, it's hard to consider him a front-runner for this position. After that, it appears someone is going to play out of position and be converted to right mid. Devin Barclay (DC) is being converted from forward with both club and the current U20 team. Beasley and Convey flip-flopped here with the U20 team in 2001 while D. Johnson has also played here with the current U20 team. Quaranta and Buddle have played right mid briefly for their clubs while defensive midfielders Brian Carroll (DC) and Ricardo Clark (NY/NJ), because of their pace, have seen some time at right mid as well. There is also talk of Mapp seeing some time here for the Fire, Seth Trembly (Colorado), originally signed as a defender, has also played here for his club and Perea has played here for Columbis this spring. A dark-horse is Lloyd Sam (Charlton), a UK/American dual citizen who plays right mid for their reserve team but has yet to indicate a preference to play for the U.S.

DEFENSIVE MID -
The super athletic Clark is the front-runner here followed by the consistent but unspectacular Jordan Stone (Dallas). Carroll and Logan Pause (Chicago) will also contend for this spot and Kelly Gray (Chicago) can move up hear from central defense. A dark horse is Mexican-born Jesus Ochoa (Los Angeles), who, according to the Galaxy website, is now a U.S. citizen and BigSoccer's favorite, Kenny Arena (NY/NJ), could claw his way back into contention if he gets some minutes this season.

LEFT BACK -
No clear-cut frontrunner but Ricky Lewis (Los Angeles) may have an edge based on athleticism. Jose Burciaga (Kansas City) is definitely in the mix, especially if the 23s go to a three-back set. Other candidates include Trembly, Phil Salyer (in camp with Dallas) and Chris Wingert (St. John’s), one of the few current college players with a legit chance to make the team. And, of course, Convey, who has played left back with the senior team, could also end up playing here as well.

CENTER BACK -
Gray and Alex Yi (Royal Antwerp) are the current front-runners because of their pro experience but they'll get pushed by Burciaga, David Stokes (DC), Nelson Akwari (Columbus), and Frank Simek (Arsenal). Zak Whitbred (Liverpool) is another option, provided his club ever releases him while Arena and Tim Regan (NY/NJ) are getting long looks at central defense in spring training. Chad Marshall (Stanford) and Ryan Cochrane (Santa Clara) are legit candidates to push for a spot but they need to turn pro pretty soon to have a real chance at going to Athens.

RIGHT BACK -
Oguchi Onyewu (Metz) is the clear frontrunner while Scot Thompson (Los Angeles) brings a lot of athleticism to the competition and Stone has seen some time here both with the 20s and the Burn. Lewis, Wingert, Trembly and Salyer are also versatile enough to play either wing back and C.J. Klaas (Washington) could emerge as a factor if he turns pro fairly soon.

GOALKEEPER -
D.J. Countess (Dallas) is No. 1 here and Doug Warren (DC) 1-A. Josh Saunders (San Jose) is pushing them and he could be joined by Curt Spiteri (on trial with Chicago) if he sticks with the Fire. Despite likely still being in college this fall, a strong showing by Steve Cronin (Santa Clara) at the World Youth Championships - whenever they are - could put him right on Warren's heals.

There are several more age-eligible players – late round draftees, undrafted seniors and European refuges – who are on trial with MLS clubs. If they land a roster spot, and then get some minutes, they will enter – or re-enter - into the U23 mix as well.

Also, with all the depth in the pool of players born between 81-84, I did not include the players born in 85 and later – who are age-eligible for the 2008 Olympics – in this group but certainly it would not be shocking if one of them made a strong push and made the team. The front runners for this are Arturo Alvarez (San Jose), Craig Capano (Chicago), Eddie Gaven (NY/NJ), Guillermo Gonzalez (Los Angeles), Jonathan Spector (Manchester United) and everyone’s favorite 13-year old. (Don’t think Nike – assuming Freddy goes P40 – wouldn’t just LOVE to have Freddy and Landon together under the Olympic spotlight.)

 

This is an interesting question.

If it were up to FIFA, I think they'd just as soon walk away from the Olympics as they don't want it to take any attention away from their primary event which, as everyone knows, is the World Cup.

When the Olympics were still for just amateurs, FIFA didn't worry about the Games. Most teams used amateur players and that wasn't a thread to the World Cup, the Communist countries would cheat by using "soldiers" who were really players who were "in the army" but whose assignment was to play soccer, and they would usually win and FIFA didn't give a rat's ass.

But, as the Olympics became professional in the 80s, FIFA's opinions changed and they thought seriously about pulling out from the Olympics for the reason listed above.

But, the Olympics are a huge deal in a lot of countries and obviously soccer is the No. 1 sport in most countries. The Olympic Committees and soccer federations of a LOT of countries let FIFA know they wanted soccer to be part of the Olympics. Reluctantly, FIFA agreed.

At the same time, the IOC really wants soccer. This is primarily because the IOC - not unlike FIFA - are a bunch of greedy bastards and because soccer is played in big stadiums, that's a lot of tickets that can be sold at Olympic prices.

So, the IOC and the various national Olympic committees and soccer federations let FIFA know they wanted to participate.

But, FIFA didn't want the Olympics, with all its pomp and history and media attention, to take any of the luster away from their cash cow, the World Cup.

So, they compromised with the IOC and came up with - starting in 1992 - a U23 event.

The IOC continued to push for full national teams so prior to the 96 games FIFA compromised yet again and agreed to the three wild-card or overage players.

So, how prestigious it is depends on who is being asked.

In Africa, Asia and the Americas, it's a huge deal. It's the only world title Brazil has never won and they want desparately to change that. Argentines were devistated when they lost to Nigeria in the 96 final. Japan, in part because it was a precursor to the 02 World Cup, but a huge emphasis on the Olympics. And, of course, in the US the Olympics are the mac daddy.

In Europe, it varies from country to country and a lot of it has to do with the club's and how pissed they are about players being gone. With the 04 games being in late July and ealry August, there won't be much of a club conflict so you should see all the players released. With all the top players, it might be seen as more legit by the Euros.

Part of the Euro's apathy about Olympic soccer is dictated by the Brits. Because in the Olympics the UK competes as a whole (Scotland, England, N. Ireland, Wales), they don't send a team because those players are already affiliated with a separate national team of the various UK members.

It's a shame because, for instance, the UK would have had an awesome team with the Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, etc.. generation and it begs an intriguing question about what will happen if London is chosen for the 2012 Games.

But I digress. Because the Brits aren't involved, they don't care and look down at the event. That kind of sets a tone in Europe and if ManU and Arsenal are bitching about players leaving, than Leverkusen and Real Madrid and PSG start to moan about losing players too and their objection is based on the Olympics being superfluous.

Another reason the Euros look down on the Olympics is that they don't see the need for a U23 team. For them, 23 years old is just too old to be on a "youth" national team. To them, 23 is a time to be grown up. They see the the World Youth Championships as a coming of age for youth players and after you've gone through that, you're no longer a youth. So, to them, a U23 compeition has a kind of bogus ring to it.

Granted, not all of the Euros look down on the Games. As others noted, Spain and Italy took it very seriously in 02 and because of their history of success in the past, the Eastern Europeans take it seriously.

Again, this is only the 4th Olympics with U23 players so perhaps in time the Euros will slowly change their minds about this event.

 

My Guess for overage players include a left back,
a Goalkeeper and a center back.

Obrien or a healthy Reyna on this team would be HUGE. Obrien could play left back, but more likely CM next to either Convey or Donovan.

Kasey Keller should get an invite. This would be a great way to make up for the WC Snub.

Barrett and Bocanegra would be nice additions in the back.

Other possibilities include McBride, Mastroeni, and Friedel.



A possible lineup:

-------------Casey----Donovan

Beasley-------Convey----OBrien------Quaranta

Barrett-------Bocanegra----Gray-------Onyewu

-------------------Countess

Maybe switch around Quaranta, Convey and Donovan and add Eskandarian, Buddle or Ed Johnson up front (forward in top club form gets the call).

Either way this is a very good team with many possible 2006 WC starters playing.

 

Is John Thorrington anywhere in the mix? Or, does he fall under "european refugee" status?

 

A snub would mean that he wasn't on the roster. So he didn't play, but Brad was the best keeper in the WC after Mary Shelly's Oliver Khan.

 

Thorrington falls in the "not age eligible category". If he's the best available right winger, he could theoretically play as an overage player.

 

Overage players to consider....


Chris Klein - would sure up a noted weak position in the current player pool....

Chris Armas - even though the team seems relatively solid in defensive midfield, this could be more of a reward considering he was on both the Olympic and WC teams only to miss both thru injury.. If Armas is playing anywhere near his old self, this would seem to be an almost lock decision..

Eddie Lewis - could be used at left back or left sided midfield

John O'Brien - could add major stability to central midfield, but Ajax probably would balk at releasing him...

Carlos Bocanegra - could play either centrally or on the left.. I don't feel so confident with our central defenders in this pool.. As of now, no one has asserted themselves professionally, save Kelly Gray and that is only going on one pro season where he played all over the field...


Don't look for any goalkeeping moves.. Friedel was called in because of a last minute injury to Adin Brown who was simply unstoppable at the time of his injury.. We should be OK with Countess and Warren in between the pipes...

 

Of course, the original poster could be reffering to the WC snub in 94' where Bora left Kasey off the squad for "near post" Meola to work his soft as butter magic...

 

you clever devil, you.