The Olympic team provides a window into what our WCQ campaign will be like

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by EXALIFTIN, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    What we saw at the Olympics was a "B" or "C" U23 team beat Costa Rica...............and have 1-goal losses to Honduras and Mexico. And people freaked the eff out and acted like it meant something. What it meant was our backup U23 team, none of whom are currently involved with the USMNT, stood toe-to-toe with the "A" U23 teams of the region.

    What I saw against El Salvador was a team with an average age of 23, one of the youngest rosters we've ever fielded in a WCQer (and if any CB other than Ream was used, it would have been the youngest)..............and they did "OK." They'll improve and be fine. I have faith in their talent.

    The biggest difference between Olympic qualifiers and the WCQing games................is fans in the stands. The Olympic qualifiers were played in big, nearly-empty stadia. There was no atmosphere, environment, or passion. It was hard to watch. Meanwhile we saw down in San Salvador what makes WCQers so special. The absolute passion of those fans in the stands. I don't care if you play in Bundesliga. That environment is totally different. And you could see on the faces of the young players before the opening whistle, particularly Reyna, that it was an environment they weren't used to.

    I remember a story told by an English national team player after a friendly we played at Wembley. This is a long time ago now. He said that as they were walking down the line shaking hands before the game, England had already won it. There was an American youngster literally shaking before the game. That's how nervous he was. The other players looked overawed. We tend to forget that these players are human.
     
  2. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People willingly choose to ignore early warning signs? My lord the hubris…
     
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  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    "Signs?" Really? You're going to take ANYTHING away from a game that featured absolutely no players who have played in qualifying? This board sometimes...
     
  4. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you think Gregg had no influence in the selection and play style of that Olympic team then I have a bridge to sell you. But I shouldn’t be surprised consider you were happy with the point against El Salvador, and thought tonight would be different.
     
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  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Welcome to my ignore list.
     
  6. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Typical, you call me out and when GGG proves me right you run and hide from your original statement. Comical even.
     
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  7. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How the f*** can anyone defend Berhalter, right now?
     
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  8. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hate that we keep having to ask this question
     
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  9. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    "Pressure in big games" Not an issue. Rather, the reverse.

    So far the pattern has been not being able to play to a good level against opposition considered lesser.

    Both games against ES were disappointing. Before we knew Canada was good the NT had a disappointing home tie. Panama away was bad. By the time Honduras came over here Berhalter was so leery about how to get this group motivated for a lesser team that he scheduled them in tundra conditions. For some reason we play better against Jamaica. Not sure why that is.

    Meanwhile, the game against Mexico was a huge win. The absolute must win away at Honduras was won. Costa Rica at home was also convincing.
     
  11. soccer_23

    soccer_23 Member

    Feb 6, 2014

    The US has, at least for the past 10-15 years, tended to play up or down to the level of their competition. Everyone wants to say they should *never* lose to teams like El Salvador/Honduras/Trinidad and *never* be able to compete with Portugal/Spain/Colombia. But in reality, the US team still has a high ceiling and low floor. This can be good, especially in tournaments where the only thing that matters is winning and advancing. You need to keep every match competitive.

    With such a young and talented team, inconsistency is expected. But when young teams finally put it together, the results can come rapidly.
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Except when they don't.

    Part of the problem here is that despite evidence to the contrary, posters on this forum continue to disrespect the caliber of our competition in CONCACAF. The hubris is unbelievable. So when folks say we're "playing down the level of the competition," I think that level is higher than we're giving them credit for.

    When the European powers go thru Euro or WC qualifying, they don't blow their competition out of the water. Portugal in 2022 WCQing. I just picked them because its group A.

    ................at home.

    Serbia 2 Portugal 1
    Portugal 2 Ireland 1
    Portugal 1 Azerbaijan 0
    Portugal 5 Luxembourg 0

    ................on the road

    Serbia 2 Portugal 2
    Ireland 0 Portugal 0
    Portugal 3 Luxembourg 1
    Portugal 3 Azerbaijan 0

    And you can do that for all of the major European teams.
    They have the occasional blowouts, just like we do USMNT 4 Honduras 1.

    But most of the games in UEFA qualifying have tight scorelines.
    Azerbaijan is 121st in the FIFA rankings, and Portugal scraped a 1-0 win at home.
    Every one of our CONCACAF opponents in the ocho is ranked higher than Azerbaijan and Luxembourg.

    I don't get it. Its like people live in a world that doesn't exist. The competition we have are high level professionals. The Panamanians aren't Azerbaijan. Ya know? Since the restart they drew with Serbia, Peru and other nations that have made a World Cup recently. In December, El Salvador drew with Ecuador. Lost to Chile 1-0. El Salvador isn't frickin' St. Lucia.
     
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  13. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Please all of you listen to me very carefully. The team has an issue with performance against lesser ranked opponents. Here is McKennie on the topic.

    "We're a young team. We're a team that can run. We're a team that loves to press," McKennie said during a Zoom call with reporters on Tuesday. "We're a team that is most effective and create a lot of our chances from winning balls and pressuring and going straight to goal. I think we kind of held back on that these past two games and didn't use it to its full ability, I guess.

    We're not even talking results here. I'm saying they aren't playing as hard as they could or even should.
     
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  14. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    That is not what I take from that quote. We do not exploit (read: play direct) after causing the turnover. We stop and reorganize, allowing the defense to recover. That's why LDLT and Musah always look like the most dynamic players on the pitch. They advance the ball through the middle, but almost none of our other midfielders do. This "swing the ball around the back to disorganize the defense" is a staple of Gregg-ball; his disciple Josh Wolff does it at Austin, and they ranked high in possession very low in goals/chances. The whole point of a press is to go-go-go! after that turnover, but we often don't go-go-go, preferring low risk passes in order to possess for possession's sake. And when we do go-go-go we need a CF off of whom we can play combinations, not a lead foot.
     
  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Are you sure about this? The style has changed notably. We are now a team built to win 50/50s and dribble the ball straight down the opposition throat. This is why we don't have Brooks and Lleget anymore. It's win the ball back and then pass it to one of Robinson, McKennie, Musah or Dest and they progress the ball. So if the personnel is specifically picked with those strengths then we can suppose that the game plan is such. We can confirm our supposition by looking at a successful game (2-0 against Mexico) and notice how aggressively we progressed the ball.
     
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  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It's amazing how much how our style of play has changed but a large number of people haven't noticed. There are still moments we pull back but we are far more direct than not.

    The Tyler Adams Athletic article was really interesting:

    That's a lot of what I see. We don't have guys who make vertical runs that often -- that's why I like Aaronson and Weah. We have guys who want to dribble, and that inherently slows down a break.

    https://theathletic.com/3123592/202...rticle_source=search&search_query=tyler adams
     
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  17. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I hope that is right. It looks that way sometimes, but not others. And I still see a low appetite for risk.

    I see how your point suggests why we don't see Lletget any more. I don't think of Brooks as a "slow it down" type but rather as a resource for making the penetrating passes out of the back. Nor do I see McKennie as a particularly strong driver of the attack through the middle third (either by way of passing or dribbling), which isn't to negate his tremendous value to the offense in other ways.
     
  18. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    You nailed it.

    The team is dominant at winning and keeping the ball, its just a matter of having the decisive attacking moments that are executed into goals. Killer instinct.
     
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  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We're likely to qualify #3 out of the region but we have a good shot this time to be the best C-CAF team in Qatar.

    Let's hope we get open play teams and avoid the likes of the Swiss and the Eastern Euros, or Senegal.
     
  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I agree that this was a key quote from Adams:

    "When I’m playing with the national team, I still win a lot of balls and create a lot of transition moments, but our sole focus in every game is not just transition moments. We have the quality to do that, but we set up to break down opponents with the ball. That’s our strength."

    For me, this supports the idea that when the US wins the ball they are often more concerned with working into a shape (set up) and looking to score by moving the ball around (break down) rather than attacking directly from where the ball is won. Where I would disagree with Adams is when he says breaking down opponents with the ball is a strength of this team. I think that resetting and taking time to work the ball around to break down teams is where this team struggles and tends to go a bit flat. Sometimes it is necessary and it's not always possible to get teams into playing a quick transition game if they are resisting it so we absolutely need to have a way to play when we can't attack more quickly. But, it seems to me attacking quickly should be priority #1 when we win the ball and pulling back to work the ball around should be what happens when we can't generate a quick attack.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Adams hints at some other things as well. I think I posted the next paragraph after this elsewhere:

    There's no doubt that Berhalter wants us to be able to play with the ball. But he's spent pretty much the last 8 months (since the Gold Cup) pushing the team to be move faster and be more direct as well. We're not Red Bull running all the time, but all the talk of directness, verticality and him literally screaming constantly on the sidelines to hurry up does speak to some level of counterattack.

    Adams' paragraph here, somewhat unprompted, does speak to big differences that individual play styles create differences. Too many guys wanting ball to feet, coming back, wanting to survey instead of go, go, go, which is how Red Bull play.

    We really only have two attacking guys on the roster who play this way instinctually and naturally -- Aaronson and Weah. Maybe Morris. But most of our best players want ball to feet, want to dribble before they pass.

    We'd see more aggression out of Tyler if we saw more aggression from his teammates.
     
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  22. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Green Bay Voyageurs
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Those U20s look for one another so well. I am not used to seeing boys that age play so unselfishly, but the combinations they are trying make them a joy (even a thrill) to watch. I hope the senior squad starts to emulate them. But not on defense. The U20s’ defense seems prone to gaffes, despite the scores.
     
  24. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im always happy to eat crow, when my takes are proven wrong, I will say though, up until Pepi came on and saved Berhalter's job in Honduras it did look like we were heading towards another disastrous campaign
     
  25. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Too much winning = disastrous.
     

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