I'm always in favor of contacting elected representatives -- luckily my Maryland senators have good heads on their shoulders.
So I was called away to a co-worker's baby shower, work, gym, and dinner in that order to come back to find out that my name was shouted all over this thread for answers. Wow. Maybe I should run for president. So I don't have all the answers. I think our perception of the problem however could perhaps be more attuned than our elected officials' currently is. I do also have a sense of what is not working--things that make the problem worse. Dubbing entire countries the "Axis of Evil", our unwavering support for Israel, our rhetoric of kill 'em all guilty or not, etc and so forth. So, things that I do if I am President. Some have already been mentioned: First, kill, capture, and overall deal with those who participate in and who finance terrorism. We are doing a fair job of this. I don't think we are going to convince the hardcore of how cool we are and even if we could, they still deserve our wrath. So we deal with them. When we do this, though, we need to be sure that justice is swift and sure, but that it is justice. Indescriminate killing and imprisoning is one of the things that fuels the fire. We must be firm and fair, such that we lok like the good guys we are and terrorists look like the bad guys they are. Abide by codes of war or civilian codes, but pick one. Get rid of Guantanamo and rendition. Tame our hard-on for Israel. I have no dog in that fight--but I feel that our current policy brings us nothing and costs us a great deal. Distancing ourselves from them might bring us some goodwill from the Arab world, both Muslim and non. They developed nukes, for god's sake, in secret--if some country like Iran did that... oh wait... Iran. We have no diplomatic presence there and a history of meddling with their internal affairs. That they deign to entertain our second hand pleas to pause their enrichment program is pretty amazing to me. Maybe we should re-establish a presence and actually abide by the treaty we signed grantign them nukes for peaceful purposes. Worrying, yes, but maybe a stabilizing move in the long run. Let the IAEA do its job. The genie is out of the bottle. Enlarge/establish a more friendly presence generally in the Middle East. This is a tall order, and exists currently in some countries, but not others. I also don't know exactly how to go about it. Exchange programs, more face time, hire an image consultant, or have Karl Rove pretend that Bush is running for election in the ME and put his magic to good use (actually that's a terrible idea). Perhaps, and this is not a new suggestion, we couple our Department of Defense (ie, War) with a Department of Outreach (ie peace) or some such. Iraq. ******** man, I just don't know. Since in this senario, I'm Bush, I wouldn't have gotten us into this morass to begin with. It's cost us the allies and the goodwill abroad that we had at our disposal starting September 12th. So I guess instead of doing that, I spend 3 years of my presidency building coalitions, reinforcing friendships, and enhancing the international will to take on rogue states and those that harbor terrorists instead of alienating, and pissing people off. I've got a few more ideas knocking about, but I have to think about 'em some more. My point in all of this is to say that while solutions abound, people who post bullsh!t like this: are going to end up either lengthening the war, or having us compromise the shared values that we have as Americans. Flame away. (edited for grammar and spellign)
what odessit 19 said, although sarcastically, is true, whether you like to admit it or not. That's what it seems we are doing these days. We keep trying to understand, while they keep trying to kill us. If we go our current way, let's hope our understanding will be sufficient enough ASAP or nothing good will come out of this understanding process.
Why do I write, if you don't read? Paragraph 4. Tired, going to bed, can't take this anymore. Fortunately my friend in London and her family are all ok.
Can you honestly say you want Iran to have nuclear weapons? Safety purposes or not I think they can figure out how to point it at LA,NY,D,C. or other major US cities. Did you see who just won the Iranian "election?" You want that muppet to have nukes!?
Like I said before as well, because of idiots like you, they will win and when they come to blow your house up I hope you can convince them to not do it, since you understand their problems. Your values as an American are way different than mine or those who want to SURVIVE! 10% of muslim population wants us dead (I am being conservative in this figure) - that's 100 million people. Good luck understanding all of them. All I know is that we did not try to understand Nazis and that's what these extremists are, only hiding behind religion. Anyways I am tire of arguing with those that don't get it. You may call me any name you want, but somehow I think my way will keep alive a bit longer than your way.
The things you mentioned are by and large very good and certainly reasonable. But you would not succeed, mainly because you wouldn't have the a strong enough lobby, or a strong enough constituency, to help you win the political fights at home. Otherwise, the real answers aren't that difficult. The US needs to become a member of the United Nations, not try to be the leader of the world. Let the world govern itself. Certainly, the US needs to reevaluate its policies in the Middle East. Indeed, to withdraw its political alliances and allegiances altogether. I would go so far as to advocate that the US declare it is withdrawing from the region altogether -- and will not return until a just peaceful order is established. And then, when it returns, it should return only to trade, engage in commerce, and tourism. No bases, no troops, no propping up governments, none of the meddling business. All that the Middle East has in store for the US are two things: trouble and oil. Oil is valuable only if it is being sold on the international market. Whoever controls the region, will sell the US their oil especially when the US is neutral and not taking any political sides. And trouble is not something the US should actively seek. Now, to be sure, the power vaccum that arises can be scary. The Israelis hae nukes. The Pakistanis have nukes. But if Iran develops nukes as well, I think we would get a balance of terror established. The rest will work itself out, as each of these countries begin forging alliances and adopting their policies as necessary to fill the vaccum. Regardless it is not the responsibility of the US.
I wanted to add one more point. A lot of people pretend to be patriots, trying to get the US embroiled in fights that do the US no good. I like to see the US go back to the country that it was for so long, except now having taken steps to redress its old problems with the question of race. Let it be the country that immigrants come to escape the ugliness of the "old world". Let is be the country that has no real part in that ugliness. Sure, sell American products and buy foreign ones if they are any good. Send American tourists and accept them from foreign countries. But America is rich enough, developed enough, it is powerful enough, to do without the headaches that exist outside its borders, some of which frankly the US has helped create in the first place. If the US could go back to what it once stood for in the world, except now freed from racism as well, I am sure I would be back in America not too long after my plane lands in Iran. Indeed, it would not take too long before much of the world, even in the Islamic world, would turn to America with willing arms trying to embrace it as a friend.
Like yourself? According to you US should have stood by and watched Germans take over half of the world, right? I can see through you like and the likes of you. See, you believe that when US leaves the Middle East, Israel will be attacked and defeated by friendly Arab nations, such as Iran. Moreover, you want US to leave because we are to close to your precious Iran, where we can strike if needed and this is why you advocate US leaving the region. Stop talking about moving to Iran and follow the Nike slogan, "Just friggin do it"
Without knowing anything about you, I am willing to bet I have lived in the US longer than you have. Especially if you are among the Russian immigrants who began coming here in the 1980s. Regardless, what makes you a bigger patriot? Because you love Israel? There are times when the world will ask America for help, and it will be up to America to decide whether it wants to help or not. We live in an era, however, that the reverse is true. Many are asking the US "not to help"! Instead of withdrawing from the League of Nations as it did after WWI, or undermining the United Nations as it has been doing recently, the US should help turn that institution into what its founders dreamt it could become. And one way of doing so is for the US to stop acting as though the role envisioned for the UN is entrusted to the US! Israel is a nuclear power. Besides, according to Ben, it is also one of the top arms manufacturers in the world. It has the "best pilots" in the world and has a superb armed forces. What are you fretting about so miuch?
You are right, I was just thinking of somethig else becuase there is no way you folks can win, you never could and never will. What makes me a patriot is me wanting to live in this country and raise my family here unlike yourself who wants to move to Persia (which you actually don't, since it's better here and you know it). Furthermore, my patriotism can't be measured by who is at the helm, democrats or republicans. You are not happy with the current administration and you want to move already. You believe that Iran is your "world", I believe it's USA. And last time I checked you were vehemently defending Iran, its right to have a nuke, when it's the same people who scream Death to US and you defend them. So Israel has nothing to do with it. Just because I support Israel and want the state to survive does not make me a better patriot of US, but you wanting Israel to seize from existence makes you less of a patriot amd more of a scumbag
Then you should have no problems not getting the US involved in Israel's fights. I am leaving. But, otherwise, fair enough. I am patriotic about an America that doesn't exist, but I thought could. The one right now is going in the opposite path. And it is not tolerant of those who want to speak out about it either. So I feel I don't belong anymore. If the US had followed the same policies it does against Iran, and made people who were Jewish feel the same way it is making people like me feel, you would have been off to Israel long ago. I defend Iran's nuclear program because at the end, I believe once Iran is secure, once it is left to be truly free, it will make the right choices on its own. And those choices will bring it closer to the US. Pushing it with unfair demands, meddling in its affairs, or trying to treat a proud nation the way many American do, brings out the worst from Iran. Incidentally, the best selling book in Iran right now is Clinton's memoir. Most of the Iranians that were see as pro-American not very long ago, liked the image of the US that Clinton represented. This America, despite some neocon polls and pretensions, has no real friends in Iran. A few opportunists want to use it to bring themselves to power; pretty much everyone else is turned off by it.
Politics aside, you really should stay here. Find a nice American lady (Iranian-American if necessary) and enjoy your life.
You are the idiot - you refuse to listen to what people are saying here. Nobody really cares to understand Osama, or why someone would fly an airplane into a building (besides from a psychology POV). What we need to understand is why these **************s get the support they do from the public! If we remove public support for terrorism in these communities, it becomes easier to squash terrorists under our boots. But if you are content to play whack-a-mole for the rest of eternity, putting up with retaliatory terrorist attacks and a constantly replenishing terrorist rank-n-file, suit yourself. As for your constant example of WWII Germany - understanding Hitler wasn't the point. Hitler was a ********ing madman. It's understanding why Hitler was able to gain popular support. In case you didn't notice, how we handled the end of WWI and how we handled the end of WWII in Germany was dramatically different. The real victory wasn't in the strength of our arms - it was how we rebuilt Germany and Japan to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past. But you? Whack-whack-whack-a-mole.
I stand where I did - you are the idiot that will be killed first, since you clearly don't get it. People who understand force and only force can be defeated by those means exactly. People like you want to get to the bottom of why there is so much poverty and crime in America and blame everyone else, but the criminals, who are just poor victims of capitalistic society. You are sick and nothing I will say will change it. You may 100% disagree with me and that is fine because when it will come down to it and those wonderful folks come here (man of them are here already), you can get up and say let's figure out why they hate you so much and by the time you will understand it will be too late. Hitler was a ********ing madman, well YES, but these scum of the earth are the same Hitler only hiding behind Allah and Islam. The reason they get support from public is called, repeat after me, PROPAGANDA!!!! Goebels said it best, "If you tell a big lie enough it becomes the truth. Hence,Their goal is to kill you or convert you. There, now you understand them, go do something about it, but I doubt this will change anything.
Jesus Horatio Christ, you are thick. If a criminal commits a crime, guess what - it's the criminal's fault. HOWEVER, you can REDUCE the likelyhood of crime being committed by doing things as simple as keeping neighborhoods free of graffiti and broken windows. That's a fact. I'm sick? I'm the one who wants to reduce the incidence of terrorism, chief. You just want to kill terrorists, as if that'll stop more of 'em from popping up in the future. Killing every cockroach you can see will not address the infestation. Take away the power of bin Laden's propaganda, and you make him nearly powerless. Easier to defeat, as well.
Having a discusison with you is sort of like talking to a broken Monkee's record. Sound does come out, but it didn't hear you, doesn't want to consider any other ideas, and keeps repeating the same recycled pop crap music over and over again. The Constitution does a great job of reflecting my values. Where do you find yours? I'd like a cite on that. Non-partisan please. Also define muslim population. See Loney's comments on "understand", although I am just wasting electrons by typing it. This is my hope. Perhaps your poison will be contained. I have no doubt that "your way" will be alive forever in the words and actions of the millions of people who never mature past the age of 12--he hit me, I'm going to kill him. Those who can read, understand, and synthesize will constantly have to clean up behind you.
Awwwwww. That is so touching. I always knew there was a thin line between love and hate. Can I have a picture of you guys cuddling?
No, we 5% disagree with you, and you're blowing that up into 100%. No one on this board likes terrorists. You're Posting While Angry. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, wore it around for a while, got a grass stain on it, tried to get it out, couldn't get anything to work, gave it to Goodwill, saw it the other day on a homeless guy. You don't really think Foos or vivzig are enemies. If I hooked you up to a lie detector or a car battery, I'd bet you'd admit you don't even really think they're abetting our enemies. We're all mad. We all hate them. I approve of the sentiment of this thread a billion percent, and so do you. Terrorists can go to hell. Now, let's figure out how to send them there as quickly as possible.
I don't think they are abetting terrorists, I think they are so desperate to win some crazed partisan political gain that they will stoop so low as to try and compare actions of terrorists to actions taken by and on behalf of the US governtment As for your last sentence, I could not agree with you more. I say let's arrange as many meetings with Iblis as we can