The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread [R]

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by BenReilly, Nov 2, 2002.

  1. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    I feel horrible about poor Claudio, etc etc.

    Now that THAT is about of the way... A few weeks ago, I argued that Reyna is an offensive drain. Fate has dealt a cruel hand and we can now again test this hypothesis.

    Reyna 928 min Sunderland 4 goals

    w/o Reyna 72 minutes 1 goal


    We start with this:

    Reyna's Sunderland .388 g/90
    Sunderland w/o Reyna: 1.25 g/90

    My prediction: Sunderland will avoid relegation wihtout Reyna and score over 1 goal per game. Remember, they were well below 1 goal per game last year (.76/game). I'm making this prediction NOW so when this comes up again people won't accuse me of fishing for anti-Reyna arguments. So here we are now, Sunderland the team that CAN'T SCORE blah blah blah.... "despite" Reyna.... blah blah blah.

    Sunderland will start scoring.

    No arguments folks. Let the games speak for themselves. We'll have several thousand minutes to look at when this is done. I'm making a fairly bold prediction here. If I'm wrong, laugh away. Until then, stay tuned!
     
  2. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Questions of taste involved in bringing the subject up aside....

    The managerial change becomes a confound in terms of adding an additional variable.

    How can you prove that an improvement in performance is due to Reyna's absence as opposed to Wilko's presence?
     
  3. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    Managerial Change *AND* top striker returning from injury.

    Although I do think that analyzing a team's performance with and without a player is a good way to determine exactly how valuable he is. Like at the World Cup...
     
  4. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Of course there are many factors, but it is encouraging that you guys already assume Sunderland will be better post-Reyna.
     
  5. Maczebus

    Maczebus Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    The Reyna effect is helping them so far.

    1-0 up against Charlton
     
  6. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Reyna's Sunderland .388 g/90 (928m)
    Sunderland w/o Reyna: 1.11 g/90 (162 m)
     
  7. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    SKC/STL
    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Oh BenReilly, will you ever learn?
     
  8. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Learn that Reyna is overrated? I've known that for a long time.

    Learn that to win you must score more goals than you allow? It can take decades to grasp this concept. Fortunately, I'm a quick study. Others will come around over the next few centuries.

    My chief complaint about Reyna is that he can't create goals in high level soccer. He can probably do well in MLS. I've always like the Reyna at RB idea. I'm crossing my fingers that we'll get that or a strictly DM situation (assuming Pablo isn't more worthy)

    Anyways, let's have our fun. This stuff here is mostly for laughs, though I'm convinced that Reyna is an offensive drag. It's quite possible that Sunderland will do no better wihtout him. Let's wait and see. I'll revisit this thread in a few weeks and update things.

    The glorious 2002-2003 Reyna season offensive stats:

    928m 0g 1a .097 scoring avg.
     
  9. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Re: The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    [Penfold]
    Oh! Good one, sir
    [/Penfold]

    Sachin
     
  10. Tejas

    Tejas Member+

    Jun 3, 2000
    Tejas
    If by "overrated" you mean isn't enough of an offensive weapon to single handedly cause a really poor team to score goals despite the crappy play all around him then sure, he isn't that player and I'd guess there are no more than five players in the world who might fit that bill.

    That being said, Claudio was still one of the few class players for Sunderland. I think it's been pretty well covered that Claudio is the type of player who can benefit a team immensely if the system he is in doesn't look to him to be the total focal point of the offense. Sunderland's use of him only highlights their lack of options and possibly their lack of understanding of the style of Claudio's play.
     
  11. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    If the assist numbers were only a problem at Sunderland, I would wait a couple years. However, we've seen the same thing for the USA for many, many years. We're now looking at many thousands of minutes.

    As a practical matter, you have at most five players on the field who will score or create goals. With Reyna, you're reduced to four.

    Anyway, I really, really don't want to get into a long argument about Reyna. I just think this will be a fun comparison. People can place whatever value on it they want, but I find it entertaining, at the very least . As you say, Sunderland is a "really poor team" characterized by "crappy play." Let's see how this really poor team does now. It's possible that they'll be just as crappy without Reyna. Should be interesting.
     
  12. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yes, and we're all laughing at you.
     
  13. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    SKC/STL
    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    On behalf of all Wizards fans:

    This man does not represent us. :D
     
  14. K.P.

    K.P. Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's very generous of you to suppose that Reyna might do well in MLS.
     
  15. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    162 minutes is not a big enough sample size to draw any conclusions. This is especially the case when there are so many other variables. When 10 variables change and you get a bad result, you don't get to pick one variable and claim a correlation.
     
  16. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078

    i think it's pretty clear he only represents escaped lunatics
     
  17. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Reyna

     
  18. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [semantic nit]
    Not quite. You can claim correlation, you just can't claim causation.
     
  19. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    It's just the beginning.... Duh! I'm afraid you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. " . Let the games speak for themselves. We'll have several thousand minutes to look at when this is done"


    Let's see how it goes. Of course, there are many variables. Funny that nobody has yet considered the possibilty that Sunderland will do worse without Reyna. Man, can this get any better??!! LOL :)

    The consistent stat is Reyna's shitty assist figures in high level soccer. That's all I really care about.
     
  20. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Of course, I could be wrong.
     
  21. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    I suppose it is mathematically possible to do worse without Reyna, but they were just utter crap before the manager sacking. Don't see how they *could* do worse with or without Reyna.
     
  22. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Fortunately, that counts as class in the world known as Bigsoccer.com
     
  23. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Re: The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    The gentleman's bet I'm making is that Sunderland will average one goal per game without Reyna. Based on past performance (last year, .76/game; this year far worse), this is a bold bet.

    It's just so funny that nobody is going, "Sunderland will still suck"
     
  24. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Re: Re: The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    It's not that funny given that many Sunderland followers believe the players stopped playing for Reid.
     
  25. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The official Sunderland w and w/o Claudio thread

    Oh I don't think Sunderland will be good without Reyna. They will still suck.

    I'm just thinking they are going to score about .75 goals per game, be putting in some extra hustle, and get a few more results than before.
     

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