The Official Ralston Line Burial Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Ghost, Jul 19, 2003.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    OK, This may be a bit premature, and you're free to say so if you think so, but I'm willing to take the risk and say that Ralston's recent excellent play both inside and outside this tournament warrants the burial of the Ralston Line, the ultimate, fateful separation between those club stars who can play at the International level and those who cannot.

    In memory, I will say of the Ralston Line that it was one of the most unusually useful concepts ever to grace these boards, as it successfully diagnosed an entire generation of USMNT wannabes, separating the wheat from the chaff. I will remember with fondness the way it gave us a firm standard measure of the abilities of CJ Brown, Mike Petke, Jason Kreis, Mark Chung, Manny Lagos and others who found their skill level just below its level.

    Now, we must carry on the cause of international player diagnosis and find a new player to place his name upon this cherished line. Each poster should propose a new player whose name should take up the tradition. I'll go with Taylor Twellman, at the risk of getting flamed, who quickly is becoming t the natural heir apparent.We'll keep it in the Revs family.

    Congratulations, Steve, on the excellent play.
     
  2. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Nah, it's the Kreis line.
     
  3. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    It will forever be called the Ralston Line. I don't care if he goes on to break Wynalda's scoring record. Tradition, baby. Plus, it rolls of the tongue.
     
  4. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    Mike Clark has put in quite a few years on that line, as well.
     
  5. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    What's the Ralson Line?
     
  6. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    That is absolutely great. Hillarious. I think you're right to pick someone who you wouldn't think nessicarily would excell at the international level, but who HAS. Instead of someone who hasn't like Kreis, it just makes it a more posative thing, an accomplisment, rather than, "oh this guy sucks just like Kreis."

    However, the Ralston line deserves some more flushing out. Because what would be the standard for someone who 'excells' at the international level. Ralston if he continues onward but isn't there for the next cycle, does that mean that the Ralston line deserves renaming? Or if he doesn't then doesn't earn another cap after the Gold Cup, then wouldn't there be a lot of players who may have had a good showing in your oppinion and aren't getting the call ups that they deserve. Maybe the defanition of the Ralston Line should be someone who is playing to the best of their abilities and doing well at the international level, beating expectations although while being a very good club player wasn't someone you thought would contribute to the national side.

    Edit: Yeah i too thought this was a hockey thing at first.
     
  7. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    Credit to DC United's own Ursula for coming up with the Ralston line c. 1999.

    Assuming that we have to keep it in the MLS family, I'll put a name into the hat using a current example.

    The Danny Califf line.
     
  8. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I remember it right, it's the boundary between an international-caliber player and a player who is very effective (even dominant) in the league but isn't adequate as an international. It's so named because up until this Gold Cup, Steve was the personification of it.

    It was proposed by (IIRC) ursula.
     
  9. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    well kudos for him and kudos for this guy for bringing it back, i think it's brilliant.
     
  10. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    would the International Ralston Line be called the Kirvoski line? Although i think 'excelling' at his club might be a bit of a stretch.
     
  11. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    Oh, but I agree that it should remain the SR line.

    He's had a nice run, but still isn't Grade A international quality. He's the same player he always was. And he's 30 now -- no long-term NATS future or anything.
     
  12. The Dog

    The Dog New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Georgia
    the Twellman Line might be more apropos.
     
  13. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Question

    OK, Ralston is 28/29 and is very much an outsider for '06 World Cup performance, even after his recent showing. It's too late for him. I'm not going to pound the table for Ralston.

    But ... the whole notion of the Ralston line is that guy lacked something -- in his case, speed, right? -- for competing at the international level. Meaning that Arena has been correct for ignoring Ralston's excellent MLS contributions, because this MLS performance doesn't mean diddly for what he could do internationally. That's the logic of the Ralston line and for defending Arena with not calling him up over the past few years.

    In hindsight, is this fair? Can we say for certain that Arena was right and that Ralston wouldn't have been good enough to make the '02 World Cup team if he had been playing internationally in '00 and '01? Or was the Ralston line a concept used to defend a player decision that, in hindsight, may have been wrong?

    Just asking ... I wasn't watching the U.S. team much when Ralston did have his opportunities. But I am curious to hear the response from more seasoned observers. Was Ralston truly worse than several other guys who have been given a lot of shots recently?
     
  14. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Ralston's play is definately an eye opener.
     
  15. johnh00

    johnh00 Member

    Apr 25, 2001
    CT, USA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Question

    Ralston has admitted himself that some of his previous performances when called into camp weren't that good, which probably limited some of his chances. Added to the fact that he was fighting for a spot with much younger versions of Earnie Stewart and Cobi Jones, and it made it even harder for him to pan out. By '06 he will probably lose the right mid spot to Clark, but he's got a good shot at playing time during quals.

    Lee
     
  16. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was a Ralston nay-sayer. Unfortunately, I still am. It remains to be seen whether Ralston can do better than Klein against the likes of Colombia, Brazil or Mexico. I admit that he has done great against minnows.
     
  17. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And like Kreis this was not due to poor performance, but due to a lack of opportunities. Steve Ralston's minutes totals as a Nat are likely to have tripled by the end of the month.

    I think this line is a myth, just like the AAAA slugger in Baseball. I'd guess that in most cases, if you're a better player than someone at your position in MLS, you'll probably be better than him as a Nat too. The problem is that, unlike Baseball, there really won't be conclusive evidence one way or the other so it'll be mostly speculation either way.

    I think Arena deserves a fair amount of criticism at this point for leaving Ralston out of the picture as long as he has, despite playing a position we've been notoriously weak at for a while. It's real easy to cliam Steve Ralston can't compete at the international level when he never gets any caps. It's nice to see that we have evidence in at least this one case, a lack of opportunity does not equate to a lack of ability.
     
  18. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But "The Razov Line" rolls of the tongue so much easer.
     
  19. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Did you watch the USA v. Iran friendly circa 2000? In that match, Kreis blew at least 5 absolute lock, good as gold, even Albright couldn't fail scoring chances. He's had his shot, and for whatever reason, he couldn't hack it.

    Next.

    Sachin
     
  20. graywolfe81

    graywolfe81 Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    North Lake Tahoe, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The one thing that has struck me other than Ralston's great play, has been the fact that it was accomplished against El Salvador, Martinique, and Cuba. Hell, even Sasha Victorine looked good against El Salvador, Califf looked like freaking Roberto Carlos that day, but so what. I can look like freaking Donovan when I'm playing 8 year olds too.

    The question is whether Ralston can due this against the big boys, at least in qualifying, against the decent Concacaf opposition, Mexico, Jamaica, Honduras, T&T, Costa Rica, the teams that actually usually make it to the final stage. Right now from what I've seen of him, I think he can help. His crosses have been picture perfect, he's shown more speed and athleticism than I thought he had, and he's been pretty darn good on the ball. I freeze framed his goal today and it was a beauty, managed to wedge himself inbetween a leg, a body and another lifted leg while diving, win the ball with his head, and send it so hard at the Cuban goalie, he ended up being more worried about taking it in the face, then in actually keeping the ball out of the goal.

    I think Ralston has a future with us, at least for early qualifying anyway. It is a shame we couldn't bring him in in late '01 qualifying when seemingly everyone with any attacking skill was injured, he might have been able to help then. So be it. Any help we can get from him now is a bonus.
     
  21. JRNoblin

    JRNoblin Member

    Jun 29, 2000
    Los Angeles, CA
    Historical question

    Not to take anything away from Ursula's very appropriate name, but doesn't the Ralston line descend from a concept Bill James came up with in baseball in the 1980s or something? If memory serves, he called it the Mendoza line after Mario Mendoza. The idea was that Mendoza's peformance level defined the boundary between a AAA player and someone who could hold down a job in the majors.
     
  22. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Although Razov isnt getting call ups anymore. Twellman is.

    Of course, I figure sooner or later Arena is going to give up on Twellman if he doesnt net something soon.
     
  23. WHOLMAN2

    WHOLMAN2 New Member

    Dec 4, 2000
    Lahs Angeleez
    I suspect this question will be answered Wednesday night.
     
  24. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ralston line - All it shows is that most on these boards don't know what they're talking about when judging players. Ralston is no different today then he's ever been and Twellman scored .... again ... last night
     
  25. Soccerski

    Soccerski Member

    Dec 2, 2000
    Georgetown, CT
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ralston is having an outstanding Gold Cup.

    Doesn't his good showing have something to do with the system the USMNT are using?

    The USMNT have played with wide midfielders (Ralston and Lewis), and in effect (at least while Reyna is on the field) two holding midfielders.

    This system accentuates Steve's strength (Crossing and 1 v 1 wide) and minimizes his defensive responsibilties (a weakness imho).
     

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