The Official Nick Lima thread

Nick plays best when he plays with confidence. Sometimes he seems a bit nervy and hesitant. Hopefully getting significant minutes in the Gold Cup gives him confidence and gets him to where he is comfortable playing the international game.

 

This is most likely true for every player. It's hard to imagine someone playing well if they don't think they can do the job. I haven't watched the Gold Cup, really, so I can't comment on his performances specifically there. My guess would be that Lima's seeming drop in quality in MLS play is down to having to defend more in MLS than in his games with the national team. My hunch is that MLS teams are largely more competitive than most concacaf national teams, but could be wrong.

Of course, you're also looking at a much smaller sample size with national team play than MLS play. I won't dismiss the idea that Lima does, in fact, play better for the US than he does for San Jose (maybe he's more motivated or the system suits him better or whatever), but he's going to have to get a lot of caps in short order for us to start getting any real comparisons.

 

Isn't this pretty much true with all players?

 

I suppose, but to me looks exceptionally hesitant when he's uncomfortable and exceptionally fluid when he's confident.

 

As opposed to Jackson Yueill , Nick Lima is having a poor season. I think in his case anyway, being away for national team duty has somewhat setback his club play He still has potential to become a great player but seems to slipping a bit. I'm thinking he will try his luck in Europe or even Mexico after this season.

 

I was hoping we'd get an offer for him this (not quote completely) past window. He just doesn't seem to fit with Almeyda, somehow. Why should every player fit with every coach? So I think if we can get some good value and he can find a better fit, why not? But maybe national team duty can get him out of his funk. Sadly, his funk is "not a great defender, not great on the dribble, and no target man to hit with crosses", which isn't something national team duty can help with much.

 

I’d bet that LAFC will trade for Lima to replace Beita in 1-2 years

 

I hate this idea. But I could see Bradley going after Lima and getting the most out of him. It would probably be a good move for Lima.

 

That would be interesting. Can't say I'd enjoy seeing Lima go to a conference rival, but I don't think I'd be all that upset about him being traded, either. Almeyda is, very likely, the best coach Lima has been able to play for so far and he has not seen the kind of improvement that players with far fewer tools have. Granted, I have been a harsh critic of his pretty much from he beginning, and my evaluation of him doesn't seem to quite line up with some of the accomplishments he's managed.

That likely means I'm wrong, though I do think his evaluation is relative and not absolute. If you compare Lima to the other currently active American defenders (especially those playing in MLS), then I think he comes out pretty favorably. But I also think the current crop of US players eligible for the national team is not an especially talented group.

 

Lima stood out at Cal with Kevin Grimes but college ball has no tactic other than kick and run. That tends to help the better, more skillful or athletic players. In the pros with Dom and Stahre, he may have shined a bit but that is because everyone else played poorly and because there was no real system in place.

Almeyda's system of play on the other hand is highly tactical and utilizes each players strengths. It’s a style that is a lot more sophisticated than any of our previous coaches and I think this is why Lima is having trouble adapting.

 

I'm not making any excuses for Nick on this but it might be a result of who is in front of him. Both TT and Nick play essential the same offensive game in that they sprint ahead and look for the outside wide run and when not present they need to come back and defend. In front of TT is Espinoza who almost never passes the ball back to TT and also is very good about retaining and advancing the ball. In front of Nick is Vako who loses the ball a lot in traffic and will pass the ball to the outside runner. Add to this that Magnus is almost always leaning to the right side so he can cut back the ball to his left.

Basically all of this means that the left side of our defense is more exposed to displacement and quick transitions putting pressure on Nick to work hard on both sides of the ball. Perhaps, this is just asking too much.

I think TT played on the left for a game or two and looked really exposed as well.

There are times in the game where Espinoza and Vako switch sides so I wonder if there is any noticeable change in the back line

 

Defense is different than offense though and the positions on the front line are more interchangeable. I don't think it’s quite the same when talking about the back. Defense tends to be easier than being a forward. A defender is judged by preventing scoring chances while a forward is constantly involved in the attack. If a defender makes a mistake, another stopper, sweeper and defensive mid is there to save the day and all is forgiven. When a forward misses a chance, he is scrutinized more because that is a scoring chance he missed and everyone cares about notices. On the other hand, I think Lima’s lapses this ear is going forward and losing the ball or losing his man.

 

I would buy into that argument more if I thought Lima was outperforming Lopez on a regular basis, which I don't think he is.

Lima's primary issues, for me, are about how he applies pressure around the penalty area. He doesn't really do it. One thing I noticed in Lopez' favor in the most recent game was how closely he shadowed the attacking player as they encroached on the Quakes' goal. He played his mark much closer than both Lima and Thompson do, and I think it's a better approach.

Considering that both Lima and Thompson have the same kind of issue makes me think they're being coach to be conservative in their defending. Basically, it's okay to let a cross in, but don't let the player actually get by you. Whereas Lopez seems more inclined to try to actively dispossess the attacking player.

I'm going off limited info here and my impressions, so the data might not bear this out. But if Lima doesn't know how to keep players from slinging in crosses all the time at 24, I'm not sure he will improve to the point where I'd consider him a great defender. I think he's a good player, but I also think he's a mediocre defender.

 

At 24 years of age, a national team player, should already know all of the intricacies of the game.

His time to shine is now but maybe he needs more time like Tommy or he just needs to go somewhere else. Lima is touted to be a great player and has potential but he has gotten to the point of being good. I don’t want to see a younger , local talent leave but a change of scenery may do him well. If not Europe or Mexico then maybe Nashville or Miami?

 

It would be foolish to consider trading Lima.

The relationship with Almeyda is basically tough love. Almeyda wants him to play to his raw potential, which imo, is nats level. He's holding him to a higher standard... unfortunately there seems to be no margin for error...from what I've seen, lately he's playing a little tight and tentative and reactionary. It looks like in some situations his speed is about 85% of what it was...like he's trying to play through a little physical issue or fearful of making a mistake when closing players...much like Tommy played under Dom.

I think the tact Almeyda is taking with him is a little too severe...and is having the opposite effect on him... not motivating him ,but wearing down his confidence. Lima is not playing joyful, free and easy ball...that is clear. Not that he is playing poorly, overall his game is good with a few wobbles here and there, but compounding the issue, he has been is shunted to the left side, which isn't as comfortable as the right side for him.

I absolutely agree, it is much tougher for any LB to play behind Vako, who is playing better D, but still a slow in defensive transition...trailing his marks frequently, but making up for it by scoring more goals....but from a defensive standpoint that doesn't help Lima. He has to deal with a lot of crap situations...and he's playing on eggs shells for fear of not making the right decision.

The overall the good news for the team is Lopez has rapidly picked up his game.

My two cents, with Lopez playing well, I'd move Nick back to RB and find another place for Tommy... I'd push Tommy up to Rmid and play Espinoza up top as a forward with free reign to run the channels or float out wide and stretch the D...Espinoza has the ability and speed to really unbalance a defense. Plus he is physically very tough on the ball....my gut feeling is he would win more balls up top than any forward we have.

 

We've seen Tommy at mid, and it hasn't worked.

I have never seen Lima play joyfully. Ever. That isn't his schtick.

You really think there is no price for which Lima isn't better traded, if Tommy and Lopez are working out? It isn't a matter of whether he is a good LB/RB, it is a question of his value to others versus his value to us. I think there are many teams that would get more from him, so they should give us a pile of money and we should use it where we need more help Preferably a big pile of money. I am definitely not suggesting we sell him cheap just to be rid of him.

 

Foolish to consider it? No. Maybe foolish to go through with it, but I don't think there are very many trades that shouldn't at least be considered if they are actually an option.

I can't imagine they'd trade him until his contract is getting close to expiring, which isn't until at least a year from now. In that time, a lot can change. But given his current performances, I do think he's at risk of his salary becoming an issue upon negotiating for a new one, which is when a trade would at least have to be looked at as an option.

If he's regularly losing time to a 19 year old now, when he's in what should be the start of his prime playing years, that has to be examined. If that reason is that he's not responding to the coaching, then the team is going to be forced to choose (assuming Almeyda is here for as long as Lima is). The smart choice would be on Almeyda, based on what we know now.

 

I don't view this as Nick and Almeyda can't function together....or Nick is permanently sliding. Lima is way too talented to be given up on or dismissed...this is hopefully a short term rough patch that, imo, isn't being handled well.

Trust me, Almeyda knows what he has in Lima...he values him...Almeyda knows Lima has the skill set and speed to play at another level...Almeyda isn't seeing it yet. But due to Almeyda's view of Lima's potential, he's putting him under more pressure than anyone else on the team.

Also to consider, Almeyda definitely will assume more risk defensively, which he's doing with Tommy, if he can apply more pressure up field. He likes Tommy's ball handling and control up field more than Nick's....that outweighs what they both bring defensively to the fullback position...

Is Almeyda expecting Nick to out compete Tommy up field?...maybe he is.

 

Have we seen Tommy at mid under Almeyda...I don't think so. I'm betting it would look better than before.

Nick's a defender, joyful wasn't the best choice of word...basically it looks like he's thinking way too hard and not playing easy and comfortable...looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders...looks really stressed.

If we traded him, we would rue the day worse than Beita and Morrow being jettisoned.

 

Quoted for emphasis.

 

I've really missed that old chestnut.

 

I'd rather see Lima pushed up to wing than TT. But I'm not going to argue with the first choice pairing of Espinoza and Vako right now. The depth for outside back is good, and we need it to be.

 

I can't say I agree, here. If he can follow Berhalter's wacky tactics and have multiple decent USMNT performances, I think he can handle the Quakes' strategy. He has lost his man in the box a couple times. He's also blocked a ton of shots and crosses. He's definitely not getting the minutes compared to last year but I still don't think he's having a bad season.

 

Honestly, is the USMNT any good? I always read the comparison of how clubs are so much better than national teams and I’m betting the Quakes this year anyway could beat the nats. I haven’t seen a great talent when they play. They have no one other than Pulisic who is a great talent and I’ve yet seen a guy who can score like Wondo or the skills of Espinoza. Even Magnus in 2019 is better than any of the national team forwards.
Florian Jungwirth Is much better than any of our American stoppers or sweepers. Their average age may be younger but they aren’t better.

Lima is a strange case. He may do well for country but has lost something for his club.

He is an incredible talent but something has been lost. I still think it’s Almeyda’s system of man to man marking or getting exposed on the wing...

Whatever the reason , he looked better with Dom and Stahre.