The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

Discussion in 'Referee' started by empennage, Oct 5, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    I'm a coach of a U14 team and this is what happened today during my game. One of my players was pushed off the ball, and the whistle was rightfully blown. The play and ball were inside the penalty area, but the referee decided to give an indirect free kick instead. So I bitch and moan for a minute or so until I realize he's not going to award the PK and shut up. To me the issue had passed, but at the end of the game he comes up to me and tries to explain why it wasn't a PK. I said, "Well if you called a penal foul (pushing) and it's inside the penalty area then it's a penalty kick". He said no it's in IDK. :eek:

    Anyway, post your idiotic referee decisions here in this thread. We should get some good stories out of it.
     
  2. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Yeah, let's all trash referees in a referee forum.

    Or not.
     
  3. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of us as coaches and players have run into some bizarre referee calls. We also seen more than our share of dumb player and coach tricks, too. We're human. Some us have a better clue what's going on. Some are just roped into positions they don't belong. :)
     
  4. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    I'm I ref too, I just think it's fun to talk trash. I'll bet if people post their stories, we can get some good ones.
     
  5. gkeck

    gkeck Member

    Apr 5, 2002
    Southern California
    It is my true hope that the level of professionalism of the referees on this board is above trashing referrees on this forum. I also do not believe that these same fine characters would not be found on a coaches or players forum trashing them. And it would not be because we do not have some very fine stories to tell.
     
  6. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ah, but one way to become an even better referee is to learn from other people's mistakes. So, by reading these stories we will learn from real life examples of what not to do.
     
  7. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    Tha'ts a load of bull. We learn from each other by presenting scenarios and situations we've experienced or seen other referees do already -- not as a method of humiliating or insulting the referee, but as a means to clarify what the proper course of action is.

    You, sir, are doing nothing but attempting to express your dissatisfaction with the officiating job of one referee by ranting about it here and looking for support. Sorry, but you'll receive no such sympathy. Especially since that referee has no way to present his perspective on the situation and defend his actions. It demonstrates a complete lack of class on your part.
     
  8. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    I agree with your sentiments statesmen and I am coming very close to locking down this thread. Personally I receive enough second guessing from players, coaches and fans. I don't need to read about it in our forum.

    Empannage, if you have questions on interpretation or decisioned made in your match take it up with your league.

    It all comes down to sour grapes and this thread has all the makings of being troll bait.
     
  9. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then go to the rivalries forum. It's not permitted here.

    The fact that you choose to state "idiotic" decisions says it all.
     
  10. Greyhnd00

    Greyhnd00 New Member

    Jan 17, 2000
    Rediculously far nor
    Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    While I agree that the initial post was a bit off...........The BEST way to learn is by making mistakes........the second best is by WATCHING others make mistakes....Lets all thicken our skins a little bit in the interest of developement.
     
  11. Greyhnd00

    Greyhnd00 New Member

    Jan 17, 2000
    Rediculously far nor
    Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    By the way, dont people do that here ALL the time?
     
  12. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    No, I've never seen a thread whose sole purpose is to rant about horrible officiating. I have, however, seen many threads that question a specific decision by a referee open up discussion about whether it was correct, and if not what the correct way to handle the situation was. There is hardly ever any attacks against referees (questions and complaints, but not attacks), and certainly not any threads with that sole purpose.

    This isn't a matter of whether hearing about bad officiating would be beneficial or not, it's a matter of the intentions of this particular poster and the overall troll-like nature of the thread. The fact this thread is even still around surprises me, but it's good Alberto has shown he is aware of it and is deliberating over what action is appropriate.
     
  13. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    What do you think I'm doing? I just presented a scenario that's we can learn from.

    As greyhnd00 said, people do this all the time. How many times after some bad call on TV does somebody come on here and question the call? It happens a lot.

    In addition, if you can honestly say that you've never gossip about a particular referees decision with your referee friends than you are a better man than I. But if you have than you are a hypocrite. I know a lot of my referee friends will talk about other referees, perhaps during halftime or before a game starts. I was trying to recreate that type of atmosphere. Perhaps my wording was harsh, but I was not being a troll.
     
  14. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    Re: Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    Since multiple people seem to be pissed about my original post let me offer a way that the referee could have improved the situation. First he could have called a penalty kick. But since he didn't do that, his next best course of action would have let the subject die. But instead, he brought it up to me after the game when I had almost forgot about it.

    Perhaps the best thing for the referee to do, would be to not hold a grudge and try to get in an argument. If a coach comes up to a ref and starts arguing it's one thing, but if it's the other way around you're only looking for trouble.
     
  15. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    Empannage. I would offer you were miffed the referee offered you a justification for his incorrect decision. What specifically did he say? You never stated in your posts his acknowledgement that it was a foul in the penalty area.

    Get over it. We've had threads like these before. If you want to blow off steam talk to your fellow coaches. Your reasons for posting it are very transparent. Everything else is rationalization.

    I had an incident in my sons game today where a youth refereee made a poor decision that ultimately favored us. The other team had a breakaway and the player was brought down by one of our players at the top of the PA. As he was brought down he managed to get a shot off. A clear case of showing patience and swallowing your whistle for a second. The referee unfortunately blew his whistle. The shot was in the net for a goal. He compunded the mistake by not sending off our defender much less caution him. Thanks again. The kid missed the penalty kick. After the game I spoke to the youth referee and asked him why he blew his whistle and why he didn't allow advantage. I mentioned that in a U12 rec league game it may not matter, but in another year or two it would be a serious issue, particularly at a club level and he needs to think about advantage, as well the resultant of calling the penalty. He should have sent off one of our players for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity. He thanked me for the advice.

    Who learns from this? You are a referee, you already know the LOTG. If your same question came from someone who is not a referee, there would be no issue about the relevance of the thread. Clearly the poster is looking for advice and wants to learn. Coming from a referee I see this as venting frustation regarding a bad decision and criticizing a fellow referee. You know better.
     
  16. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Re: Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees



    There is nothing to learn from your post. You stated a very specific one-sided claim without developing the situation or presenting the referee's POV to any amount of detail. The referee is not here himself to explain what he saw. You merely attack the ref and ask us to attack other refs in the same manner. The only thing being learned is how to be insulting towards fellow referees.



    Questioning a call and asking people to share stories that make other referees look foolish are entirely different subjects.

    Ah yes, so now you are attacking me as well. I have to choose between either being a better man than yourself or a hypocrite. Choose one way and I come across as arrogant, choose the other way and the implication has its own negative connotation. For what it is worth you bet I do not "gossip" about my fellow referees. Gossiping has the nasty habit of finding its way to the ears of the target. I would prefer not to place myself in a situation where that target is assigned as my AR on a very difficult match, when I will need him or her the most, only to find they have taken offense to my comments and will leave me out to hang high and dry. Whether this makes me a better man than you or not is really not a concern of mine either way; I file it away under Law 18.
     
  17. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    Originally posted by Statesman
    There is nothing to learn from your post. You stated a very specific one-sided claim without developing the situation or presenting the referee's POV to any amount of detail.

    How is it a one-sided claim?

    Here's the facts:

    1. Player was pushed off the ball.
    2. The play was in the penalty area
    3. The referee blew his whistle for pushing. (he admitted it to me)

    What's the logical response by the referee (ie. restart)?

    The referee is not here himself to explain what he saw. You merely attack the ref and ask us to attack other refs in the same manner. The only thing being learned is how to be insulting towards fellow referees.

    Well shoot. I hope you get on everybody's case about critizing Prendergast or Hugh Dallas, because those referees aren't here to defend themselves.

    Ah yes, so now you are attacking me as well. I have to choose between either being a better man than yourself or a hypocrite. Choose one way and I come across as arrogant, choose the other way and the implication has its own negative connotation.

    :rolleyes:
    You're the one that attacked me first when you said, "It demonstrates a complete lack of class on your part." And, yes that does make you "come across as arrogant." If you don't like being "attacked", then don't attack others.
     
  18. empennage

    empennage Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unfortunately it's true. :( ;)
     
  19. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Sorry empennage but I will not allow myself to be baited into an argument over this. You've already made up your mind so no further discussion is required by my part.
     
  20. MPJ334

    MPJ334 New Member

    Dec 19, 2001
    Chelsea,New York, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    not saying i don't ever criticise (sp) other officials. usually when i do, it's to their face and is constructive...this year's new crew respect my opinion even though i'm 15 and have been doing it for a year.
     
  21. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Which raises an interesting point: do refs ever go to the "Coach" forum to talk about dip-stick coaching decisions that occured during matches they officiated? Or for that matter, the "Player" forum to make fun of spastic kids who display the tactical sensibilities of a dump truck?
     
  22. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I hope we know better.
     
  23. Grizzlierbear

    Grizzlierbear New Member

    Jul 18, 2001
    canada no it is not
    1st immpression

    When I first glanced at this thread I was not interested in responding being arrogant and or sensible I did not think it worth my time. Yet the content while debatable raises an issue that is near and dear to my heart . As referee when I see the coach acting in an irresponsible manner I will challange him on his right to do so and as I have the control and priviledge of warning him or sending off the FOP it is a big advantage and responsibility for me. There are few avenues for a coach or player when watching a centre referee (actuall or opinion) botch it up albeit unintentionally to express dissatisfaction in a way that does not generally tee us off more. This thread being one more to some extent. On the FOP there is even less room to make a point be it good or bad. I suggest to all coaches, being one myself is to respect the referee and consider him or her as a playing condition much the same as the sun or rainy weather or the ground conditions of the Pitch, smooth cut grass or a bumpy surface. Apply the energy and emotion into playing the game. Do not waste it on the referee it is not wanted and does little good. You simply adapt to that condition for that match

    Now I have no idea of the age or experiance of that particular official. I can not speak for his rational or mindset. Obviously he was bothered by the call or he would not have sought YOU out and tried to analayze it. I always remain available for players during appropriate moments at stoppages if they can refrain from freaking out ask me about any decision they wish during or after a game. There are conditions which I set out clearly and these guidelines allow for no dissent just exchange a bit of clarity and information. I agree there is little to be gained for a referee to approach a coach for justification although I respect it as a possibility.

    I am not saying you were correct in your version of events as I was not there to see. As in all one sided views there is generally another point of view, be it a good one, who is to say? As a coach this is your opportunity to set him straight. Why do it in a way that would not be of benifit? Ask for the rational of the decision. If it is wrong in law point it out and suggest that he talk it over with his fellow referees or mentor? When the response is No it is INDFK in reply to a penal foul of pushing in the penalty area I am sorry but the referee would have to be a newbe to respond like that or he was trying to find justification in that the push was trival or inadvertant contact and was thinking an impeding call would suffice. He may lack a bit of spine in calling fouls in the PA, it does cause certain referees hearts to pound and the nerves to shake.

    Game altering decisions when witnessed from touch are sure to cause considerable anxiety. I too have watched, not a judgement call, but clearly LAW violations take place. Supporting the referee is one thing but supporting your team is also a responsibility. If their safety and well being is threatened, in as much the need for a result may colour our view, to sit idly by is a huge frustration burden and not easily quelled by saying just relax and take it easy. It is why referees must not completely shut down the dissent they hear or totally ignore a plea for understanding.

    The real purpose of sharing information is to educate and provide creativity to those wishing to participate. While I pontificate and preach certain aspects I realize that my opinion is but one of many. And in all opinions there is little value if we do do arrive at the truth. I try hard not to cast stones at other referees but certain issues are difficult to remain quiet about in witnessing the mayhem that occassionally takes place. On this Board I have seen various degrees of ripping a poor international performance so in ripping a recreational game does not totally dismay me.

    I make few mistakes in absolute law now as when I first started out. I anticipate well. MY foul recognition is much improved. So is my grasp of mechanics and positioning. My understanding that certain players or coaches will do anything to win was unsetting to me initially and remains no less so now. As is the idea that 50 % of the people will be on my back even if I make a correct decision. So basically a bit of steam let off can be overlooked depending on the type of comments and duration.

    I think Most referees will not readily acknowledge their mistakes as they do not want to show weakness or look foolish. Those of us who have been at this a while tend to know that an honest mistake or a missed call can be acknowledged and players know that principles of fair and equitable are being invoked by a human being not a machine. Refereeing is a job where people expect perfection first time out and then we are to steadily improve.

    I find the adversarial approach between referees and coaches players and managers to be disheartening when we are working as a group to improve the game. The game is fun and full of excitement and passion. We need to focus on the benifits of sharing our opinions not trying to belittle each other. There are so many other things that require our anger and emotional rages. In Nigeria they stone women to death for having a child out of wedlock where the father gets off scott free. We are at war with terrorisim in the name of whatever hate filled sect they belong too. Life is filled with too much uncertainty and it filters into our everyday lives even onto the soccer pitches. If we are truly dedicated to the principles of integrity and respect and apply the principles of fairplay then look for solutions rather than lay blame or point fingers.

    Write Game reports, request evaluations, offer advice, set up mentors and training programs guest speak at meetings between referees and coaches to meet and discuss issues, video footage, consultation not confrontation, compare evaluations from coaches and assessors look for common themes in your character and mannerisims as a coach and in your abilities as a referee. Remember we all are on the same team even if we need to agree to disagree.
     
  24. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A learning experience:

    Several years ago, as manager of an O-30 men's team, I encountered an official (an adult) who called a push in the penalty area and awarded us a DFK. !!!!! We "politely" informed him that it should be a penalty kick. He said no, because the player was moving away from the goal. :(

    So we protest the call and win our protest. The following season we encountered the same referee. Be darned if the same scenario in the penalty area doesn't repeat itself. Tweet!!! This time he sticks his hand straight up. We have been given an IFK.

    The referee learned from the the previous experience that he cannot award a DFK in the penalty area. Unfortunately, he did not grow any balls in the meantime. ;)

    Amen.

    After all, we are considered to be part of the field of play.
     
  25. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: The Official: Let's Vent at our Referees

    That's the kind of pompous "holier than thou" attitude that alot of refs have that fuels the fire against you from many players and coaches points of view. You think Collina got his reputation for acting like that? Instead of marching around the pitch like little Hitler's, why don't you ref with a smile on your face and keep the spirit of the game good-natured? It's not hard.
     

Share This Page