The official 2015 Fire Curtis and Marsch thread

Petke had Henry. Marsch is inheriting a team that has massively shed payroll. I was upset that Petke got fired, sure, but I don't think it's fair to judge Marsch on a win-a-trophy-in-year-one basis. Looking at our squad this year I would say it's not a failure if we make the playoffs. Need a trophy to be determined a real success, but I don't think those are realistic expectations.

 

To dig a little deeper....

Suppose we were the dogs of the league. Let's say we miss the easy-as-pie MLS playoffs and come no where near the competing for the Shield. Yet, we manage win the US OPEN CUP.

Would you consider this a success?

 

6 teams out of 10 make the playoffs. Two of these teams are expansion teams.

So to you, as long as we make 6th place in our division, we are not a failure? Is this where you are setting the bar? 6th place in the weaker of the two divisions?

 

From the perspective of Marsch's coaching performance? Yes.

I think our squad is pretty weak right now. And those two expansion sides I think are going to be pretty good. Point is, if he gets us into the playoffs with this team, I think he will probably have done fine.

Does that mean I will be happy or satisfied with the direction of the franchise? Of course not. But ultimately that comes down to Red Bull deciding to cut costs. But I can't blame Marsch for that.

 

From a Supporters Shield and a goal away from the Cup to considering 6th place a coaching success.

This speaks volumes of what you think Red Bull the organization has done to this team. It's also interesting how you give Marsch a total pass on the "weak team" as if he was just dealt the hand and no part in assembling his players and coaches.

For me, Jesse had a major hand in picking his players as all coaches should have. Marsch said he didn't want to take this team in a 180 as it already was a pretty solid club. He wound up taking it 180. To obsolve him of all culpability here is much to easy. At least for me.

We have no D and one striker, he doesnt bear any of the responsibility here?

 

I didn't say I would consider it a success - just not a failure.

I suppose one can view those as binary choices - something is either a success or a failure. And yeah any time the team doesn't win a trophy I wouldn't consider it a success. So in that way, any year we don't win a trophy is a "failure." But by that logic, Petke failed last year since we didn't win any trophies. And most certainly were unhappy to see him go.

Ultimately I'm willing to give Marsch a shot. And if he gets what I think is a pretty weak roster into the playoffs, I won't deem him a failure. And I probably wouldn't want him fired. It's not his fault Curtis fired Petke.

Sure he bears some responsibility. And obviously how things specifically play out will affect my view on him. Whether players he seems to have specifically sought out, like Kljestan and Felipe, work out will reflect on his decision making.

That being said losing Henry, Olave and Cahill without adding what I consider to be commensurate replacements means I will be skeptical of this squad. And I think that has more to do with Red Bull than it does Marsch.

 

Every club gets its wins and its defeats. Its our job as supporters to cheer the wins and mourn the defeats, and as a smart man once wrote, the sweet isn't as sweet without the sour. Petke getting fired was a defeat, and one that I mourned bitterly along with most fans. But I like the passion involved as it relates to this issue; billboards, long rants, NY post articles, etc. But I am also dismayed by all the supposed supporters who claim they are going to become NYCFC fans because of the Petke firing. That's not very supporter like. If Curtis and Marsch play an exciting attacking form of soccer, if the team gels, and if they win any hardware, I will accept them and cheer them until they too are fired. Then I might mourn them, and the cycle repeats.

 

On the flip side, I LOVE fans jumping ship and joining NYFC. God I pray that many do. If we are not going to be GOOD, then I hope for a terrible season which would make the crowds even lighter. I love that there are like 7 Sunday night matches which are always lightly attended.

I bring dozens of people to matches with me and get their tickets through my ticket rep. I wont dont do that this year. I will guide them to $9 tickets on stub hub. Next year I wont renew the 3 seasons tickets I have and do the same. Order off Stub Hub or just buy they for 10 bucks a pop on the way in.

I guess we all mourn in our different ways.

I truly wish Ali Curtis and RB the very worst.

I want them to sell the team to someone that actually cares about building the kind of club I want to support.

Why are u "dismayed" because after 19 years some fans have grown tired of a constantly-turned over, losing, rudderless club which fired the one guy that truely loved the team and just so happen to bring some spirit and winning to the organization? Just because your up for a quick mourn then back to clapping-like-a-seal doesn't mean other fans dont want more than that, does it?

Fans have a much better chance at a good Football experience with NYFC than they will with RB. Looking forward, things look much brighter in New York than it does Harrison. If you are going to jump ship, this would be a great time to do it.

Here you have a team that will be together for 2 or 3 years then dismantled as it always is. As you say, this lame cycle known as METRO repeats. With NYFC there is tons of hope and promise for something real.

 

I don't know if Wigan Athletic fans were happy about winning the FA Cup and being relegated, but the Red Bulls don't have to worry about relegation.

 

You explain pretty well why I dont care much about either of these competitions. This club just doesn't care about them themselves. I never even watch the US Open matches anymore. I think my last one was at Rutgers University a million years ago. I haven't wasted my time on it since.

THEN, if we did win, we would make it to Champions League, right? Same dilema here. We could have cared less about Champions League last year. I was actually really pumped for it. Until I got out to the Stadium and saw Darius Obekop, Perinelle and the rest of the scrubs in the line up. After, I watched another 20 minutes of the second match on TV and saw the same garbage.

If your into this stuff, then cool. I just can't get into these events if the team itself doesn't care. I just dont have it in me. Maybe if we got to the Final of one of these it would grab my attention and I would watch the match. Still, I wouldn't care that much being that I have ignored the tournament for so long. It hard to just flip a switch to get excited about something you have ignored for years, ya know?

This was a long way around to say that MLS is all that matters to me. Supporters Shield then MLS Cup. In that order.

If we do well there by real standards (not this 6th place stuff that many fans here consider a success), BUT genuine success; then major props to Jesse.

Basically I am with you on this last part. We had a winning team that Ali/Jesse dismantled because they think they could do better. Now let's see see what they put out there and judge him against what Petke brought to the table.

Curtis has been waking up each day doing the best he can, so I am sure we'll be alright.

 

What do you like about Marsch? He is less than forthcoming in his interviews.

"Back line will be a strong part of our team this season" Will it really Jesse?

"I am not here to change things 180 degrees" You are not? The team has been totally revamped.

When asked about the player that impressed him in camp, he basically named the entire team name by name on Seeing Red.

He did a competant job in Montreal and has built a team here with glaring holes and very suspect talent.

What about Jesse do you like?

 

Those who went to the Town Hall all reported that Marsch was far more direct and honest with his responses than anyone else at the table, but then again he was sitting next to Curtis... He did at least go on record early in the off season saying that CB was something they needed to address.

We don't know exactly how they've split responsibilities to this point, but usually roster turnover is on the GM and not the coach. To me the blame for this year's roster goes two ways. 1) The owners waited far too long into the off season to hire a new GM when it was reported for months that Roxburgh was leaving. Roxburgh was announced in early November when he took over, Curtis wasn't hired until late December. 2) Curtis for not focusing on the right priorities with the signings he did make.

To Marsch's credit, on the field he hasn't changed a whole heck of a lot. The formation looks very similar on paper to what Petke was running at the end of last year, and the guys who did stay on are in the same roles. And as much of a joke as "up tempo" has become, the team definitely delivered on putting high pressure on KC. Opta said that we put in more tackles than any team since they started tracking stats in 2010. So there's at least reason to believe that the guy knows how to take a game plan and execute it on the field. Like all the new players though, still a lot of questions to be answered about Marsch.

 

I'm operating under the (hopeful) assumption that our paper thin roster is a result of the purse strings being frozen until the CBA was completed, and as a way for the new regime to assess their current roster and then make educated moves in the summer when the guys from foreign leagues are much easier to acquire.
I personally think the plan is to tread water until a few impact guys can come in during the summer. Marsch gets to see how the team gels and then will get a chance to work with Curtis and identify exactly where he would like that money to be spent. The rather hurried assemblage of new GM and new coach plus the lingering uncertainty of the CBA negotiations probably led them to believe this was the best plan of action.
Again this is my admittedly optimistic take on things.

 

Interesting take.

Direct and honest as compared with Ali and Degrandpre? As you said above, that's really not saying a lot.

As far as turnover is concerned, its been huge, no? You seem to be saying this was mostly Ali? I certainly see Jesse's finger prints on these trades too. Sasha and Martins especially. It would be hard to believe that Marsch stood on the sidelines while Curtis picked all the players. Either way though, the matter who did it; turnover to this degree IS taking the team 180 degrees. Its certainly a new look team in terms of names and style of play.

That said, I like Jesse's style of play and hope we continue with it. I love aggressive teams that press. MLS teams are usually not good enough to unlock aggressive pressure. Pressure works. Arena used this a bit when he was here. If this is what he meant by "Playing like an Energy Drink", then I like it. That said, its a different and new style of play for the team. Petke didnt play like this.

And finally, yes to this.... 2) Curtis for not focusing on the right priorities with the signings he did make. I would add Marsch's name in there as well. They BOTH are claiming they have to tools they need to win now. Now, let's see them do it.

 

Good point, forgot how many of the moves we made involved Marsch's old pals. Definitely fair to assume he had plenty of input.

 

The only argument in his favor that I think makes any sense is that he will bring a style of play much more consistent with the rest of MLS. That midfield scrambling is something employed by plenty of other MLS clubs. OTOH, I always liked the fact that the Red Bull teams were Euro-centric and employed a more skillful, tactical approach. So for me, this isn't a big plus.

 

Nice piece with our former GM...

https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/articles/taking-the-initiative/

 

On the topic of Marsch's interviews, MSG apparently will be posting his post-match media conference calls publicly. Most of this stuff will probably be reported by the beat writers before we get wind of it, but still cool to hear:

http://www.msg.com/teams/red-bulls.html?vid=2657943736