The offical "Fire Bob Gansler" thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Spoon, Sep 14, 2003.

  1. Van Buren

    Van Buren New Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Kansas City, Mo
    certainly talley and wolff are first teamers, and they're not 100%. simu still seems bothered by something. I have no idea what klein's problem is, maybe it's health. guti is finally getting healthy again.

    as far as bob trading away players, isn't that the general manager's job?

    ben makes a good point about 8/10 teams getting in, but playoffs is what matters, so I really don't care about losing 8 in a row 2 months before the playoffs. if we're hot and healthy in november and can make the final, I really won't care about the cold august for the team.

    2000 was a magical year, good from start to finish. that's pretty rare. LA didn't do it last year, and neither did SJ the year before. they were good, then hot at the right time. NE made the final by being hot at the right time. It can still happen this season. Nov. 23 is a long time from now.
     
  2. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Yeah, and the way Gansler has the Wizards playing, the only team from KC playing that day will be the Chiefs hosting the hated Raiders...
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Chiefs hosting Raiders on the same day as MLS Cup? I consider that a good omen!
     
  4. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    One outsider's perspective: Gansler's great.

    I understand Bob has been there a while, but he's also had some serious successes during that timespan.

    I understand that given MLS budgets, structure and player availability, sometimes firing the coach is the only way to fire up a team - since you can't really make wholesale upgrades to the squad.

    But I think the MLS fans on BigSoccer are altogether too giddy about getting rid of their coaches. It's like the Real Madrids and Jeus Gils and Chelseas of the world - who were once viewed as borderline insane - have set the standard for fans' expectations now.

    This isn't La Liga, it's MLS: where parity is enforced and it's a bitch of a season and teams like New England can win their division then go to the Cup in one late run. Or, this year, beat Chicago Fire 5-1 without Twellman. Look how good Dallas looked against Columbus. I remember thinking the Rapids fans had a good case for firing Tim Hankinson in June.

    Slides are gonna happen. Gansler is a class coach who's done great things for KC -despite being a midpriority team from MLS's perspective. Your team is no longer the chaotic, unpredictable mess Newman coached, it's generally competitive and usually plays some of the best soccer in the league. I've really enjoyed watching your team.

    So IMO Gansler deserves better, at this point, than having his fans hold up signs that say "Fire Gansler." Just send the GM an e-mail expressing your concerns.
     
  5. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    On one hand you have a good point in that many in MLS's current state many teams are destine for mediocricy with the off chance at a KC '00 or NE '02 ride. We fully understand this though.

    Sure, every season in the heart of a losing slump someone always brings up "I wonder if we should fire Gansler", but no one was ever really serious. This season is different. From day one we couldnt hold a lead. We scored enough goals to clinch a playoff spot by the end of August and be leading the division, but we blew so many leads we found ourselves in second place and fading very fast.

    Now the goals have stopped, and we've not won a game in two months. No team, not even Dallas, has been that bad. Thats a sad statement for me to be able to make considering Dallas' record. The only reason we're not worried about missing the playoffs is Dallas, and if not for LA going to the crapper as well we'd be a lock to finish 4th. If we're in the East, we're damn close to missing the playoffs and then firing the manager becomes even more realistic. So is that to say that just because we're "lucky enough" to be in the same division as Dallas we should accept the teams performance that is ultimately the responsibility of Gansler?

    As stated before Gansler took a team of mostly Newmans players, implemented a new system on them and won a championship. Is it inconceivable that a different coach could take Gansler's players, implement a new system on them and win another?
     
  6. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    Not inconceivable at all. But not any more likely than Gansler taking this team to this year's title, IMO.
     
  7. Van Buren

    Van Buren New Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Kansas City, Mo
    Soccer is a game of patience. why so impatient on coach Gansler?
     
  8. Merlin172

    Merlin172 Member

    Mar 16, 2000
    Kansas City, Kansas
    4 years as head coach.
    3 losing seasons.

    And as was pointed out earlier, the championship year, he won with Newman's players. (with the notable exception of Molnar)

    Also, during those losing years, we didn't just lose... we finished near the bottom of the table. 8th place, while it may be good enough to make the playoffs, isn't a good spot to be.
     
  9. wizardsrunner

    wizardsrunner New Member

    Aug 18, 2003
    Kansas City, MO
    Philosophically, I am generally inclined to give coaches a chance, and I think that coaching changes tend to be made too quickly in the sports world.

    But, patient as I am, I think that time is running out in the case of Bob Gansler.

    Let's hop into the wayback machine, shall we?

    1999: comes in 7 games into the season, goes 8-17. Wizards miss playoffs for the first (and as yet, only) time in team history. We can all agree that the '99 club was a disaster, but not really Bob's fault, I think.

    2000: 16-7-9 regular season, 2000 Supporters Shield and MLS Cup Champions. Woo-hoo! :)

    2001: 11-13-3 regular season, making for an 8th place finish out of 12 teams and a first-round defeat (albeit a plucky one) to Miami.

    2002: 9-10-9 regular season, making for an 8th place finish (last in the Western Conference, incidentally) out of 10 teams and a first-round defeat (another plucky one, though, as we again took the top seed to 3 games) to Los Angeles.

    2003: 7-9-8 with 6 to play. With 47 max points, we are not likely to catch San Jose (43 actual) and Colorado (37 actual) for the West #1 and #2 seeds, so we're looking at probably 3rd or 4th. And if any team looked ready to go out in the first round, it is the Wizards.

    The 2000 team's strength, in my opinion, was organization. The team seemed prepared for each game, executed the plan, and had the bench and especially the on-field leadership to manage the game in progress. Add to that mix a striker with a nose for the goal, and you had a pretty good combination.

    2001 through now have been a different story. It's not that the Wizards have been bad (like the '99 team), but they have been inconsistent, as our records would seem to indicate. The team hasn't been organized and has not played cohesively for any sustained period.

    This run has highlighted the need to hold players, coaches, and the front office accountable for the team's performance. It's time to take a good look at how we can improve our club.
     
  10. kenosha

    kenosha New Member

    Sep 19, 2001
    West Vancouver, BC
    Voice of Reason

    Fire Bob? The man has once again done well with limited talent and injuries. It is amazing that a team which only sports one consistent threat to the opponent is where they are. The two key points in the edited quote above are valid.

    If Bob made all the personnel decisions, then may be he should be criticized on that end. To think Bliss would be a better coach than Gansler is absurd. I suggest you keep Bob until you can be assured of an upgrade.
     
  11. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Second time. The Wizards missed the playoffs in '98 as well.
     
  12. jdouble

    jdouble New Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    Kansas City, MO
    dallas

    dallas got rid of Mike Jeffries.

    I have read several theories that Hunt teams wont fire their coaches during the season. maybe we are next. something needs to change.
     
  13. SoccerNutScott

    SoccerNutScott New Member

    Feb 6, 2001
    Olathe, KS
    This is the first intelligent post I have seen on here. My god, you guys sometimes baffle me. You call yourselves supporters when you are the most negative bunch of people I have ever heard. I realize the team is in a serious funk but that happens sometimes in sports. You won't find a more knowledgeable coach in soccer. I have been to several camps and clinics with Gansler, Bliss, and Mulsqueen. I have also been to other clinics for coaching with other coaches and I have never heard one coach ever say a bad thing about these guys and you know what else? Every Coach I have talked to says you won't find a harder working and more knowlegeable coach in the US. This team just needs a break right now to go there way and things will start rolling. If it doesn't then you make some changes in personnel in the off season if need be. But I really do not think Coach is where the change needs to be.
     
  14. ojsgillt

    ojsgillt Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lee's Summit MO
    This is the third year we are in a funk. How many more seasons will it take?
     
  15. SoccerNutScott

    SoccerNutScott New Member

    Feb 6, 2001
    Olathe, KS
    So are you conceding the rest of the season this year? It is not over, I said they are in a funk right now. As a Coach, you make adjustments, and I have seen Bob doing that all season, whether due to injury or bad performance. I believe he is doing all he can right now. Early in the year, we were leading the league in scoring. Our defense was not faring as well but we had most of our injurys to our backline. Plus Tony was not playing up to par. Tony seems to be back on par now. The team is not playing horrible and getting blown out like the way we blew out Dallas. We are just missing by one goal here and there. Their confidence is down. IMO if we get a break and get a win, things could easily change. At the same time, if they don't get a break, things could easily go in the tank further. But as I stated, the season is not over. Ganslers as good a Coach as there is in the MLS. I wouldn't trade him for any other coach with the exception of maybe Bradley.
     
  16. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Exactly. This thread is rediculous on so many levels.

    At one time or another in BG's tenure he has proven cabable of coaching the MLS' best offense and defense. Suddenly now, he's a bad coach? Please. KC only gets blown out during periods of intollerable scheduling. This season he has guided a team to the same record as the defending champs while not having the planned on defender of the future and first threat forward. Klien has done nothing out of a Nat jersey. Meola was poor at the start of the year and is still well short of '00 form. Even a reasonable expectation of Meola's play has him measuring short.

    If you have to bag on BG then mention some questionable subs and tell us why those decisions sucked. Play the "bad trades" card. Even try to connect how a player's failure to execure is solely a coach's fault. Give me something with some logic. Don't tell me BG sucks.

    Also please do not waste my time with Preki as a head coach. Mo might be able to hack it with his demeanor. Bliss might also. Both are hopeful at best right now. Neither of these two has the resume BG does.

    You want to fire someone? Bag Curt Johnston. He has proven extremely falible in personel decisions. The Zard program and external marketing programs also being two examples of his lack of marketing leadership. If it's me, I fire him at the end of the season unless KC gets to LA.
     
  17. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Absurd? While I agree that CJ has many areas he could work on in the personel department, the fact that our attendance has risen each year he has been here saves his ass. And I'm certain that given that fact Lamar Hunt would call you absurd for suggesting he fire CJ.

    What I dont understand from the people defending Gansler is this how you're seemingly ignoring his results in the last three seasons.
    27-32-20.....Thats a .458. Thats acceptable to you guys? We're well on our way to our third consecutive bottom third finish. For example in the EPL (disclaimer: I fully understand MLS isn't as intense as the EPL) we would have finished 16th or worse the last two seasons and would again be fighting to avoid relegation. You think a team fights off relegation for three years and doesn't fire the manager? Give me a break! That is absurd.

    Sure, we can go on and on about how Gansler:
    And all of these things may be true. But then I must ask....why isn't Gansler the USMNT manager? If your correct, then by your reasoning he should be. I mean, he was there once, so he should have never lost the job. I mean, he qualified us for the WC, so hell, who cares if we got beat three games adn came home, he should have kept his job. Also by your reasoning Mike Jeffries shouldn't have been fired in Dallas. They made the playoffs every year until this year right? Many considered Jeffries the #3 man in the line to become the USMNT manager. He was the assistant under Bradley and will most likely be his assistant if/when Bradley replaces Arena. So why was Jeffries fired if he's "so good"?
    Its because after a certain period of time you come to realize that change is needed. Most coaches are described as "talented, knowledgable, etc., etc." That doesn't mean they're immune to having their ass fired when they perform below average for a number of years in a row. Even the best coaches are fired when they aren't performing well, no matter how "good" they are supposed to be.

    And SoccerNutScott yes, we do call ourselves supporters. We're supporters that want to see FIRE and PASSION in the team we so passionately support. Gansler has seemingly squashed all of that out of this team since '00. Not to mention the results listed above. We may be negative at times, but your statements tell me that you're prepared to support Gansler as manager as long as we continue to finish 8th or better every season. To me thats blind ignorance as a fan, something I'm not going to ever be guilty of.
     
  18. Spoon

    Spoon Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Overland Park Ks
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: The offical "Fire Bob Gansler" thread


    No it sounds like he works in the front office and is ok with being mediocre? SNS I am positive and negitive about this team but when they play like piss for a more than 5 games then there is something wrong. Maybe if you watch more soccer and took more notes of how good soccer was played maybe you wouldn't be so blind.
     
  19. Spoon

    Spoon Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Overland Park Ks
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would I be wasting your time Mr. know it all. I throw something out there you bash it but yet didn't give a good reason to bash it. Quality!

    See all he has to do is keep attendence going up and he keeps is job. Why becuase there is no pressure from any of the fans or media to do better.
     
  20. Van Buren

    Van Buren New Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Kansas City, Mo
    You want results?

    '99: came in late with horrible team.
    2000: title
    2001: 8/12, but playoffs
    2002: 8/10, but playoffs
    either year were we favored on talent? Miami was better, including our superstar; 2002 LA was far superior.
    2003: incomplete, but surely not missing the playoffs.

    so why should bob push this team to finish 3rd or 2nd, possibly burning them out, compared to treading water, like he's doing, getting them ready to be strong and healthy starting Nov.1?

    ---
    And soccernut, there are people on this thread supporting bob, so piss off with your "first intelligent post" crap. The fire bob posts are intelligent also, I just disagree. Show some courtesy.
     
  21. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Those results aren't very pleasing, as I noted with my analogy that a team in a relegation league would have surely fired him by now. If being in the bottom third three years in a row isn't enough to at least consider a new manager, then I really have to ask what is? I just dont understand the logic behind it.
    And I dont believe for one minute about Gansler "saving" this team. If that were his philosophy he'd have done it in 2000. I talk to him before almost every home game, and for the last few he's basically said "Yeah, we really need a result. Don't think I dont know it either..."

    Thank you.
     
  22. SoccerNutScott

    SoccerNutScott New Member

    Feb 6, 2001
    Olathe, KS
    You are correct, probably a bad choice of words. Don't be so sensitive.
     
  23. SoccerNutScott

    SoccerNutScott New Member

    Feb 6, 2001
    Olathe, KS

    Yes, again, maybe a poor choice of words on how I structured it. Show some courtesy? You never attack anyone on here? Right!
     
  24. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    Re: Re: The offical "Fire Bob Gansler" thread

    If you're trying to rate Gansler's performance, the difference between the EPL and MLS is not a matter of intensity. The two leagues just have hugely different demands. A few examples:

    In the EPL there is never anything more important, really, than winning your next league game. Winning mid-season league games is important in MLS, but managing the season requires meta-strategy. And MLS has had seasons where most of the teams finished with losing records, correct?

    I called KC a mid-priority team for MLS. KC isn't a glamorous media market, so they're not going to get mysterious hand-outs of impact players. On the other hand, they're owned by Lamar, so we're not talking the Quakes or the Mutiny here.

    If an EPL team sits just below mid-table, chances are that basically reflects their squad, which is a reflection of their player budget. In the sense of what they can acquire for their squad, KC is about where I'd expect them to be. Of course there are exceptions to this corollary (thank god) in both leagues, but especially in MLS with its prevailing parity: Look at the Quakes, LA, Dallas.

    Now throw in the fact that KC, at various times, has shown us the best defense in MLS, the best attack in MLS, and the best soccer in MLS. Throw in the fact that KC has a real shot at the title and, IMO, you've got a team performing above expectation.
     
  25. SoccerNutScott

    SoccerNutScott New Member

    Feb 6, 2001
    Olathe, KS
    Re: Re: Re: The offical "Fire Bob Gansler" thread


    yes, that is exactly what I am. I work for the front office. I am GM. Yeah thats the ticket. Ok just kidding. Actually, I pretty much watch soccer all day. I work from home, have FSW on everyday while I am working. I have a USSF National D Coaching license and have been coaching soccer for about 8 years. So guess that squelches that. No I am not ok with being mediocre either. Nor do I believe BG is. I just think the team has had injuries to this team all year that has kept them from doing anything consistent this year. I don't think they have played all that badly in some of their losses. In a few I thought they stunk it up. But I am not ready to firre BG just yet. Now I will say, I don't always agree with some of his subs. Sometimes they are baffleing, I will agree.

    When I think of Mediocrity, I think of Tony Muser when he coached the Royals. Every Year, he said he wanted the team to get to .500 ball. He was predicting mediocrity before the season started. I still think BG is a good coach. I have seen a couple of people say the team is missing the FIRE in the players and I agree with that. But I am not sure a coach can put that in a player.
     

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