Premise: Watching the last game where Nani was dominant, it occured to me that we only see that when Rooney is either not playing or is playing badly. I expect that Nani won't start on Tuesday -- that Park and Valencia will. Probably no Berbatov either to start. Remember back when people were always upset that Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez didn't start together? Do we have the same situation now? Or is it the formation that we use? It could be that Rooney, Nani and Berbatov just all hate each other I suppose....probably it's the formation. What do you think?
I think we are simply rotating because we have and will continue to play close to two matches a week for the rest of the season. Except for Berba. He just isn't an effective #9 which is what this team needs to play with any real flow. He is to busy running into the same space as Rooney to be effective game in and game out with our best player.
I think the emergence of Hernandez has more to do with this than anything else. Also, the return of Valencia has further complicated things (in a good way). Before those two factors I'd say that this was easily our attacking+midfield unit. ----------------Berbs ----------------------Rooney Park---------------------------------------Nani ----------Anderson----------Carrick
Disagree. Think Fletch gets the nod as the #1 midfielder by SAF. Before the injury I think Valencia was and is once against the starting RM.
My point was that Fletch was and is the first midfielder on the team sheet. Before the Rooney/Cheech man love started and he probably will be when he returns. I also think that Nani's place in the side is subject to whether Valencia is healthy or not. He maybe our most dangerous creative force, but he isn't the well oiled machine that Valencia is.
Lynne asked why Nani, Berbatov and Rooney can't play together. I assume that she's talking about recent trends because earlier on this season we did in fact play Berbs, Rooney and Nani together, a fact that I mentioned. I also mentioned that in that same time Berbs, Rooney, Nani, Park, Anderson and Carrick formed our best attacking lineup. Looking at the performances of the team when that unit played together proves that point. I'm not sure why you're bringing up Valencia, or Fletcher? Valencia has been injured for the majority of the season and Fletcher has been awful. Neither of them was part of our best attacking lineup this season, which is what I was talking about. What are you talking about exactly?
Vince -- I know that Nani and Rooney have played together -- but is there ever a time where they're playing well together? Seems like (at least) one is always doing less than his best. Same with Berbatov. I know they all play in the same team, but why don't they play well together? Where the sum is more, or at least equal, to the parts...
How many times has this line up started this season? How many great performances did it have? The Blackburn game is all I can think of, and that isn't much of a test sample. Is it any better then- ---------Cheech Park-----Rooney-----Valencia ----Carrick----Giggs offensively? You can't have Ando or Carrick in front of Fletch on the depth chart no matter what line up you are talking about in terms of best possible. Same for Valencia, as he is the starting RM. Nani maybe the better player, but he is only going to play on the right if Valencia is being rested or is hurt. Thus when picking our team it is battle between Nani, Giggs, and Park on the left. Rooney, Valencia, Rio, Vidic, Evra, VDS, and Fletch. Those are the players that when everyone is healthy and fit, get the start every time. The rest, including Nani and Berba are tactical changes. Perhaps why they don't all play well together that much. You state that the line up you posted was our best offensively, when over the past month we have been our most consistent offensively with Berba riding the pine and no Park or Ando. During the first half of the season, outside of a couple of random performances, we had no flow going forward. Nani and Berba were flying, but we were disjointed. So while Valencia may have been hurt and Fletch was indeed crap, just like Carrick, that doesn't change that they are both a part of the best possible attacking line up.
Berba doesn't fit with Rooney. They are good enough players to make it work, but on the whole, Berba does not bring the best out of Rooney. Berba congest the field, makes the same runs as Rooney, and isn't fast enough on the counter. This is what I see with Nani and Rooney. They have clashing styles. Nani has his Superman thing, and Rooney has his place as the team hub. Rooney can't control much from the middle of the pitch if Nani is going to go it alone like he does so often. Like when he cuts inside and shoot 5-10 times a game. If Rooney is chasing down and breaks up play, then passes the ball to Nani, chances are that when he gets back up the pitch, he isn't seeing the ball again. Nani is great at being the hero, not so much fitting in.
The Blackburn and Birmingham thrashings come to mind. ^^^^^ When that lineup thrashes a team 7-1 or 5-0 I may consider it on par with our Andershow/Nani/Berbs inspired lineup. This has nothing to do with my point or reality. The reality is Anderson and Carrick formed a much better partnership this season than any midfield containing Fletcher. I'm not talking about depth charts or who Fergie's favorites are. I'm talking about what actually worked. Again, nothing to do with my point. You're talking about preferred lineups, I'm talking about proven effective lineups. ? Over the past month we've lost to Chelsea, Liverpool and we barely squeeked by against Marseille and Bolton. The West Ham game changed when we brought on Cheech and....Berbs. lol are you serious? Read that back to yourself.
Uh, we did not run out the same sides in those two matches. For one, Giggs played and Park was in Australia. Secondly our back four was different in both matches. Second, that line up I just posted, beat Chelsea at the Bridge. I tad bit more impressive then crushing terrible versions of Blackburn or Birmingham City. Fletch having a bad patch does not take away from the fact that just like Rooney, SAF is going to let him play through it, why? Because he is exactly what we need for this team to flourish. Same for Valencia who has been great since his return. Uh, no. Over the past month we are six for six in terms of wins, beating Arsenal and Chelsea. We also haven't been leaking goal outside of the almost disaster against West Ham. Rooney and Cheech push midfields and defenses back. Also did not know Berba was responsible for Rooney's hat trick against the Hammers. He did not take the free kick, he did not take or earn the penalty and he didn't even supply the ball for his second.
I'll give you the lack of Park in both thrashings but then again, he wasn't a central figure in this debate now was he? As for the back four...what do they have to do with us running up the score on people? You're acting as if we dominated Chelsea with attacking football... We took our chance while they missed theirs. Compare that to utterly humiliating a decent Blackburn and Birmingham... Theories, theories, theories. All you're giving me are theories. Where's the facts? Where's the evidence? I can accept this because there's actually visual evidence of it. I strongly suggest you go look at our results again... In that time period we kept two clean sheets... Miss the point much? Your point was that we were this almighty attacking force for the last month with him on the bench. I'm pointing out that this isn't factually true. Care to prove otherwise? I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Won't happen again.
Yea, the second half of last season. This season Rooney was off form up until recently and Nani went a bit off form the past several weeks (until Fulham). I don't think it's a matter of playing together. Mostly due to Rooney's poor form early on.
Respuesta: Re: The New Formation Thread or Why Can't Nani, Rooney and Berbatov Play Together? there is that and Rooney has played different roles this year as well. maybe a bit early to question this because the 'dip' Nani had coincided with his gash and Rooney starting to find his form. lynne if you want a game they all played well then i suppose Blackburn 7-1 is it. if you mean for a sustained period then there is none. Berbatov's 'good' form is only this season in most people's eyes. if he can keep it up next year and Nani and Rooney keep it up theirs as well then we should see it happen.
I had typed a long reply, but then I went back, read and realised that the entirety of Amdrag's posts are fueled by his Rooney love. Rooney and Nani haven't combined well because Rooney has been shit all season while Nani has been busy winning us the title. I'm laughing because you think Nani is a tactical change simply because Valencia combines better with Rooney.
And yet, Nani did not start against Chelsea. Valencia was preferred even on short rest. Nani after all came off the bench against West Ham. The choice was between Park and Nani, not Valencia and Park. Not that Nani isn't a starter, he obviously is. He is going to be in the first 11 most of the time, but when push comes to shove, unless Valencia is hurt or needs a rest, Nani will be the one dropped if we need Park or Gigg's skill set on the left. Oh, and he does link up with our best player better then Nani.
Not according to Peter Schmeichel. And seriously, do you actually believe that? I think it has to be Rio or Rooney.
You mean, you think Rooney is our best player? I hope everyone read your post sitting down. Based on performances over the entirety of this season Rooney isn't even top three.
I judge them over the course of the last 50 or so games, yes. Otherwise it'd be Scholes. I would ask what your criteria are, if I felt it was based on any sort of footballing knowledge.
It is his contributions during deep CL runs over the last five years, (12 KO stage goals, as many as Ronnie ). That even in this terrible season of his, he still has 13 goals and 12 assist in 31 appearances, compared to Nani's 10 goals and 16 assist in 39 appearances. That now, in squeaky bum time we can literally stick him pretty much in any position we need him in and he can produce, as he has down this stretch so far.
Rooney's scored 9 of those goals since the start of February. Undeniably a hell of a spurt, but a spurt nonetheless. Prior to February he was having a very poor season by his standards. It was good to see him still trying, but ultimately at times he was far closer to Darren Fletcher mkII than he was to WonderRoo. It has been a relief that we had players we could swap in for/excel to cover for Rooney, like Cheech and Berba, because othewise there's no way we'd have been at the top of the league in the home stretch when he finally started stringing good performances together. I'm not going to say he has been our best player in the past 50 games (which renders discussing CL games from 5 years ago utterly pointless, otherwise I'd be saying Ronaldo is our best player) just because he's turned up in the past 10 games. Nani by contrast has for months at a time carried our attack, Rooney included, being the only goalscoring threat from midfield as well as our only winger. He has been by far and away our best attacking player this year. His 18 assists this year span across all competitions and have led to impressive goal tallies for both Cheech and Berba, as well of course as for Roo. There hasn't been anyone who could cover for him, who could take his place without our performances taking a hit, which is why only Vidic and Van Der Sar have been as important to our season as him. I don't particularly want to get dragged into a debate with a brick wall over several pages so I'll leave it there. If anybody other than Amdrag disagrees and sees Rooney as still meriting the title of Utd's best player, then I'm happy to be proven wrong, but Am has been beating the same drum (well, beating something anyway) for at least two and a half years - he'd have said Rooney was our best player this season if he'd moved last summer.