Before I joined the site (about 6-7 months ago), one of the users on this site said that Lewandowski is a complete striker like Ronaldo, only he doesn't have Ronaldo's ads!! His comments on such a site are very strange Ronaldo 2012 was the most complete version of an attacking player in at least the last 15 years Scorer + Playmaking + Chance created + Dribbling + Technique + Creativity + Long Shot + Defensive Work + Heading + week Foot + High Speed + Help in Counter Attacks+Penalty+Free kicks and etc... Ronaldo may have only 2 or 3 of these now, but at that time Ronaldo had all of these Since Ronaldo was injured in 2014, he was less involved in dribbling and tried to be a striker in the area. But if we want to check in General Lewandowski does not have any of these statistics of Ronaldo 1- Having more than 12 successful dribbles in one match (an example against Benfica in CL 2007) 2- created 10 chances in one match (Ronaldo was able to give 7 key assists + 3 assists in the last week of La Liga 2011) 3- a record of being among the top 3 dribblers in the CL, World Cup and Euro 4- most crosses sent in a season in a league (Ronaldo could do 219 crosses in the Premier League in 2005, higher than the likes of Giggs) 5- in 4 different positions in the selected UEFA team (forward in 2017 + right winger in 2007 + left winger in 2011 + right midfielder in 2004 So, I don't think it is strange that Ronaldo is more complete than all offensive players at least since 2005
IFFHC does not have a specific definition, they consider the final passes to be a part of playmaking What I have always seen is that ronaldo has never been a playmaker, he only has good crosses messi is the most complete player of the last 20 years because he is the best scorer and playmaker at the same time there is no comparison between him and messi, he should be compared to eusebio
I think we can make a differentiation between completeness, versatility and resiliency. I'll try to illustrate the difference as best as I can by comparing Ronaldo and Messi. Completeness The easiest and most common way to identify a player's completeness is how many skills a player is proficient at, even if you narrow it down by categories. In this case, I think Ronaldo is clearly more complete than Messi as an attacker. As in, I think Ronaldo can simply do more things than Messi can. His sheer physical advantage alone gives him the type of scoring arsenal that Messi can't match (eg. Messi can't be an aerial threat the same way Ronaldo can, no matter how hard he tries). I would go so far as to say that there isn't a single offensive skill that Ronaldo isn't at the very least "pretty good" at. There are things where Messi are "mediocre" at. As I will explain down below, you can be effective at all times without being complete, which is what Messi was. Versatility Instead of trying to view it through the lens of positional versatility, I prefer to view it through tactical versatility, especially vis-a-vis tactical roles. It doesn't matter to me if a player can only play one position, as long as he can perform multiple roles from that same position. Cruyff is a good example of someone who can perform as both a goalscorer and a playmaker even if he's operating from one general position. I think both Ronaldo and Messi are tactically versatile, but not to the same degree. Ronaldo is to me, quite clearly, a goalscorer who can do other things well, while Messi was the more versatile attacker. Ronaldo clearly loses value if he's asked to do something other than goalscoring because he's just so good at the task, doing anything else would almost be less efficient. Like, every moment he performs the role of a "good" playmaker is a moment where he isn't performing as an "all-time great" goalscorer if you see what I mean. Fortunately, he was generally very good at switching things up in the flow of the game so that he's not actually losing value as he does these different things Ronaldo, at his best, would one moment be a dribbling wizard out wide and transforms into a sort of "athletic Gerd Muller" all in a blink of an eye. He wasn't perfect, of course. All those moments where he took long shots instead of passing, for example, illustrated his limitations. These are nitpicky, but that's the margins we deal with. Still, I think Messi takes it up a notch, especially Messi of 14-15 to around 17-18. At any given moment, he was anything and everything for his team, simultaneously, and he had the intelligence to understand what he needed to do. We are talking about a player who can at any moment be the best dribbler, passer, or scorer in the world. Hell, late-Barcelona Messi was at times his team's best midfield conductor as well! Whatever his team needed him to be, he was it. This is what I mean by him being the most tactically versatile attacker ever. What's worse for the defenders, he was all of that at any given moment. So when he gets the ball 40 yards from goal, he could threaten with a solo run or unlock any of the 3-4 runners around him. If he advanced another 15 yards, he's well within his shooting range. He is never limited. For all the things that Ronaldo could do, he couldn't do this. A completely versatile player would be able to perform every and any role for his team at any moment in time. Resiliency The last thing I want to explore is the concept of how resilient players are because I think "how complete a player is" is almost always discussed around what players can do in a vacuum, rather than the more useful way of what players can do under different circumstances. Obviously, every player has situations they excel at. Most attackers like space and time, for example. With Ronaldo, he was obviously at his best in a counter-attacking situation. Early 2010s Ronaldo may have been the single most devastating counter-attacker in the history of the game. If not, he's right up there. Now, despite how complete and versatile he was, as discussed above, his game wasn't particularly resilient against deeper defenses. His playmaking value gets shrunk to wing play, generally, as his ability to operate centrally, either with penetrative dribbling or through balls, was not excellent. So a deep defense can take away a lot of his effective skills, and his direct defender can hedge against his scoring as his playmaking was tactically limited. What never gets taken away is his goalscoring. Ronaldo has to be considered one of the most resilient goalscorers ever. Unlike other parts of his game, it was very difficult to stop his goalscoring tactically, and it usually came down to shutting down his services and winning individual battles on the day. So, while Ronaldo was a one-man army in a counter-attacking situation, Madrid's playmaking threats shifted away from him and onto someone like Modric, when its up against certain set ups. Messi has his struggles too, but I think he's a more resilient player as his dribbling and passing and scoring game, while less effective against some setups, can never be taken away from him. In any case, the threat of Messi is always paramount. He was always Barcelona's most dangerous player. His direct defender can't hedge against anything because his triple threat is always present. This is a key difference, in my opinion. So, a completely resilient player is complete in the sense that he can maintain his value against any type of setups. ***NOTE*** Now, I don't actually have an interest in these Ronaldo vs Messi-type discussions. I've actively stayed away from it. Please understand that I'm only using the comparison as an exercise in demonstrating the different lens we can try to understand how we can understand which players are "complete".
Hahahahahaha Reality: Ronaldo Fenomeno's best year = 59 goals (1997). Cristiano Ronaldo scored 60+ goals in 4 consecutive years
Top 5/6 He could be third but that's seems unlikely to me Pele/Messi are obvious top 2, i have Cruyff and Maradona over Ronaldo as well Di Stefano debatable
Is this how you're coping, clown? "but but you are just Argentine" lmaaoooo... Even most United fans don't put him among top 5, lol. Mount Rushmore includes Messi, Maradona, Pele followed by Beckanbauer and Cruyff. No space left for botox divas with shitty technique. Imagine thinking you can make it to top-5 with support from some delusional Real fans, some Portuguese and twitter bros from Pakistan, India etc. lol.. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/top-10-greatest-players-of-all-time.480982/ Even in terms of goalscoring, not even top-3, nowhere near Gerd Muller, Messi, Pele who dominated every single tournament at all levels unlike Pendu the NT ghost.. not even as complete as R9 or Van Basten in terms of complete striker skills.
Wow, some people just can't let go of their biases. It's honestly pathetic how some fans try to discredit Ronaldo just because they have a personal vendetta against him. First off, saying that "most United fans" don't put Ronaldo in the top 5 is a huge generalization. I've seen plenty of United fans express their admiration and respect for him. Second, comparing Ronaldo to Gerd Muller, Messi, and Pele is like comparing apples to oranges. Each player has their own unique style and contributions to the game. Ronaldo's ability to score goals from all angles and his incredible athleticism are undeniable. Third, the claim that Ronaldo is a "NT ghost" is simply false. He's led Portugal to numerous major tournaments and has been a consistent top scorer for his national team. Finally, your insistence on including Beckenbauer and Cruyff in their Mount Rushmore is debatable. While they were both incredible players, their careers took place in a different era. Ronaldo's achievements in the modern game are unparalleled. Let's be honest, Ronaldo is one of the greatest footballers of all time. His impact on the sport is undeniable. It's time to stop spreading negativity and appreciate his talent.
Welcome, serafim, the 2nd biggest defender of pEnalDo in this forum, talking about but but "biases", you can't make this up, lol.. "personal vendetta", lmaoo... just because nobody even United fans rates him unlike pathetic penaldo fans, they must have a personal vendetta, lol. Can you read? Who in his right mind would compare Penaldo with Messi and Pele in terms of overall skils. Go back and read again, I said even in terms of goalscoring, which is Penaldo's biggest strength area, he's nowhere near those guys. The comparison is not about playmaking, dribbling areas which penaldo is nothing "but but Ronaldo's ability to score goals from all angles", lol.. what's this man? what kind of argument is this? keep clutching at straws, lol.. He's definitely the most consistent NT ghost ever, I give you that: 3 goals in 21 knockout games in 5 World Cups + 6 Euros 0 g&a in 8 WC knockout games in 5 WCs imagine thinking this is how you make it to the list of greatest strikers, lol.. It's not my insistence, serafim. It's the United fans' view shared by many football fans excluding delusional penaldo fans. Rather, it's time for his delusional fans to stop desperately forcing him into the conversation and asking themselves why everybody is making fun of them and their idol. He's a global meme at this point for fun.
Rage bait 6/10 Ok, explain why R9 more complete and Messi>Ronaldo goalscoring. Ronaldo is way better than Holland farmer, Paradona, Freckenbauer. Cris vs fruyff: Club career: Cris Int career: Cris=> Big games: Cris Impact: Fruyff Peak: Cris (2014>1972) Prime: Cris (2012 - 2014>1972 - 1974) Longevity: Cris Winner: Cris Cris vs Paradona: Club career, big games, peak, prime, longevity takes Cris Other takes Paradona
Because he played more games and got more easy entries in Intl tournaments, with expanded format? Johan Cruyff vs Poland (Home) (Euro 1976 Qualifying) 1975-76 (youtube.com) Johan Cruyff vs Poland | 1975 Euros Qualifiers | 1 Assist | All Touches & Actions (youtube.com) Johan Cruyff vs Sweden - World Cup 1974 Group Stage (youtube.com) Johan Cruyff vs Bulgaria - World Cup 1974 (youtube.com) Johan Cruyff - World Cup 1974 - YouTube 1977 Johan Cruyff vs England (Friendly) (youtube.com) Johan Cruyff vs England 1969 - YouTube
So, I'm apparently the second biggest defender of Ronaldo? That's a pretty low bar to clear, considering the level of discourse here. But hey, at least I'm not the one resorting to personal attacks and straw man arguments. That's a pretty bold claim. I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but I've seen plenty of United fans express admiration for Ronaldo's achievements. Maybe you should spend less time trolling and more time actually engaging in meaningful discussions. I'm not sure who you think you're talking to, but I can read just fine. And while it's true that Ronaldo may not be the greatest player of all time, comparing him to Messi and Pelé is not entirely unreasonable. All three are exceptional players who have made significant contributions to the sport. That's a ridiculous statement. Ronaldo has scored numerous goals for Portugal, including in major tournaments. To claim that he's a "ghost" is simply inaccurate. Again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. Many football fans, including United fans, recognize Ronaldo's talent and accomplishments. It's unfortunate that you're so blinded by your bias that you can't see that. If you think that Ronaldo's fans are "delusional" and "desperate," then perhaps you should take a step back and reevaluate your own perspective. Ronaldo is a legendary player who has achieved incredible things. It's perfectly normal for fans to be proud of him and to want to discuss his accomplishments.
source 1: Pendu's WC knockout goal source 2: Pendu's sister source 3: Pendu's emoji D'or source 4: Pendu's "trust me bro, in pain trying to cope" fan from penaldoland clown is comparing R9 with peNaldo in terms of completeness, lmaaaooo, "but but Paradona and Dutch farmer Fruyff, Freckenbauer" loooll, imag ask your mom to increase your copium, nobody rates your useless idol, WC bench-warmer NT ghost, Europe rejection king, not even in the camel league, lol..
Source: Penaldo's least biased fan who met some United fans, loll. now acting worldwide United fans' representative only to protect his useless idol.. "but but where are you getting your information from?" go & educate yourself, he and his fans been the biggest mocking material among most football fans including United fans, read below and see if you can find 10% positive comments about this diva. There's one out of tons of posters there like who bumps the thread whenever he scores in the camel league only to get ridiculed by the rest of United fans. You remind me of him, lol.. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cristiano-ronaldo-much-ado-about-al-nassr.474758/page-171 serafim working overtime to promote his disgraced idol.. typical penaldo fan logic "if I praise Pele, Maradona, Messi in the same sentence, maybe, just maybe, I can sneak in peNalDo into the conversation too", lol, imagine the amount of desparation and copium consumed.. 3 goals in 21 knockout games in 5 WCs + 6 Euros, loooll.. You're right, it's inaccurate to label him as a ghost, rather, he's the "ultimate ghost" in international football.
I'm curious, how significant is World Cup performances during the latter stages, in terms of elevating, or devaluing the overall career performances in according to you? What far can a great World Cup legacy take you, or how far does the lack of it, knock you down? I'm not sure if this is a complete, or an accurate list, but for example, how accurately does this list reflect the greatest players of all-time? Is Kylian Mbappe on course to be the greatest player over Pele? Does Geoff Hurst have a say at being one of the greatest strikers of all-time due to his 5 goal involvements in the latter stages of the World Cup? PopFoot on X: " Les joueurs les plus décisifs en Coupe du Monde à partir des 1/8eme de finale (buts + passes décisives) https://t.co/ocZ67LVOoa" / X (twitter.com) I think trying to brute-force an overall picture purely through World Cup performances because it is what set Pele apart from the rest during his era (and because there is not much else we can toy around with in terms of footage or data), is as forced a narrative as trying to use UEFA Champions League knock-out performances (a sample that obviously paints Cristiano Ronaldo the best) only to knock-down past legends of the game. I would gladly take many legends of the game such as Johan Cruyff over many players on the PopFoot list of players with the goals and assists from the round of eight onwards at the World Cup (a fairer analysis since the number of attendees changed throughout the years, and the round of 16 would have meant the group stages for past tournaments). Likewise, using the inflated statistics of the modern-day UEFA Champions League schedule to justify somebody's overall legacy is also not that intellectually honest in my opinion. It makes conversations reductive, and less nuanced overall. I think the point of forums like this, at the cost of being emotionally draining at times, is to be precise and accurate as possible. Create accurate blocks of data, or analysis, to build a more complete honest opinion from.