The most complete player of all-time?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by y.o.n.k.o, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Ventilan

    Ventilan Member

    Oct 6, 2011
    Club:
    SL Benfica

    Everything you've typed is correct; it just doesn't concern this thread.
     
  2. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Not reinventing - Lionel Messi was never an orthodox winger or centre forward. It's because people are only just realising how much of a great playmaker he actually is.
     
    Rana catesbeiana repped this.
  3. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I agree, though would add that many have realised that ages ago. Nothing new.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It is because of the World Cup and because the manager is in his pocket, so he'll allow the search for a new balance. Martino was appointed for satisfying and reassuring Messi, say the stories. And he never was a traditional playmaker. It is like the dudes who claim that Pelé was a creator, midfielder and pass distributor (rather than a scorer primarily).
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  5. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    This is a thread about the most complete player of all time. Surely commenting on the best player of the current era, who happens to be extremely skilled in more than one thing is not off-topic. :cool:
     
    La-Máquina repped this.
  6. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well yes you're right he doesn't really play fixed positions. But he plays majority of time in some role, which is what I meant.
     
  7. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I disagree.

    I mean, Messi has always passed a lot and made plays. Nothing new. Martino appointment for Messi? You make it too black and white: coaches are signed to get the best out of material and so the available material has to thought when a coach is signed, but to put it like you put it is just delusional thinking. Messi is not THAT powerful. Nobody also said Messi is a "traditional playmaker", no need to disagree with comments nobody made...
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The extent is new.
     
  9. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    It's not.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The stats show it...
     
  11. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Ok, show me the stats that say that Messi's passing game has been at a lower level during the, say, last three years, than it is currently.
     
  12. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    According to whoscored.com and wikipedia, Lionel Messi learnt how to pass this season... it was on the warm evening of the 22nd of January 2014, in Valencia... the air was rich with anticipation. Lionel Messi, who so far in his career had played as a tradional centre forward collected the ball 40 yards from goal. Messi had never found himself this deep before - his head told him to shoot, but this time he fought against all instinct and chose to 'pass' the ball to his teammate - accurately threading a wonderfully weighted through-ball to Cristian Tello. Tello stood mouth-wide-open, suprised to see the ball played perfectedly to his feet, Tello then finished with aplomb. Even the crowds were astounded and amazed by Messi's first assist. Now the media are crying out in excitement at Messi's new-found skill - Messi: The Playmaker (not just a goalscorer)...

    ;)
     
    leadleader, Jaweirdo, Gregoriak and 3 others repped this.
  13. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Traditional playmaker no, playmaker in practice yes. Messi has the most dribbles, assists, through balls and key passes in Barcelona from 09-10, anyone who watch Barcelona knows Messi has been the main creator the last 4 seasons.
     
  14. pasvid

    pasvid New Member

    Jan 28, 2014
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
  15. michaelwo

    michaelwo Member

    Sep 23, 2013
    Club:
    CD Huachipato
    It's great to see good natured humor! Thanks.
     
  16. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Just you wait for my next chapter: 'Cristiano Ronaldo: the day he learnt how to dribble'. :D
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You know that this isn't the thing. The thing is the application of it. Playmaker = a role.

    No, stats don't show the intrinsic ability. But it does show the evolution into a role. The role and job in the past few games has been different - for a change I concur with Bada Bing here. Statistics do show/hint that type of things.

    By the way, the very same statistics back up the idea that he became less of a 'creator' after midway 2011 - as some have observed (and has passed by here a few times).
     
  18. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    If you keep talking about stats that prove your point and fail to show them (when asked), it's not that strong, sry.

    Besides, "the past few games" is too small a sample size to base any wider evolutions on. Basically what he has been doing for some time now is that he shoots and passes, moves in attack and in midfield. I guess you can call that a role, but it's a very vague role, and anyway not something he has grown into lately. When there are a few consecutive matches in which he gets assists but no goals, it's hardly anything too significant as in changed role etc.

    Basically: nothing new. Of course he has phases when he "creates more" and "creates less", but anyway it's nothing new.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    True.
     
  20. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Describe what is a traditional playmaker.
     
  21. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #596 JamesBH11, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
    the coincidence? Both Xavi and Dani Alves were worse since 2011 then ... Iniesta were also worse from 2012 til now
     
  22. Ventilan

    Ventilan Member

    Oct 6, 2011
    Club:
    SL Benfica

    Even if you consider Messi to be the best player ever, make no mistake, Lionel Messi isn't a contender for The most complete player of all-time. The history of football is just too immense and rich.
     
  23. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    That's your opinion.

    My opinion is that
    a) it's wrong to say that he is the best ever now. We'll see when his career ends.
    b) he is a contender for the most complete player ever (by which I don't mean I'd say he is the #1 in this category; but a contender I'd say he is).
     
  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    yeah a contender in 50 candidates??? yes
     
  25. Ventilan

    Ventilan Member

    Oct 6, 2011
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    No. People miss the damn point.
     

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