Didn't realise you'd asked this Puck, but after Roy stated before that Best played in the midfield of a 4-3-3 type formation for a spell at Man Utd I did watch again extensive highlights IIRC of the Man Utd game in Benfica in 1966 (the one Bobby Charlton says was as good as Best ever played IIRC) and I got the impression he may have played that role in that game (having previously assumed he was playing basically as 'normal' right winger from what I'd seen of the game before). Maybe have a look and see what you think? Roy might indeed be able to make a better confirmation about that game too if he can remember the details (it was a high profile game of course, but was also a long time ago now).
I did know before that Best played at times as 'inside forward' of course from footage and descriptions of him(Wikipedia says that his role can be determined by the number on his shirt IIRC - I wouldn't trust that completely but it's probably right concerning when he played as inside forward albeit not in a WM - so as James says like a trequarista, or roaming AM, or support striker even - Roy might be able to remember how his role varied as inside forward too?). He often dribbled through the centre of the pitch even when lined up as a winger of course. In a 4-3-3 he would have more defensive work to do than as an inside forward in a WM variant or 4-2-4 though. He was also pretty good at winning the ball back with a tackle when playing as a winger though as far as I know and have seen.
Yes I know that game. I know what you mean, at times he played behind Charlton even but it is hard to judge based on 20 minutes highlights. I did not see the full game and did not recognize which formation they played.
Cool. You probably saw as much as me then. Because Roy had described Herd (who otherwise played as central forward) playing as a right side forward nominally, with Best deeper in midfield then I seemed to recognise that sort of formation when I viewed the highlights after he'd said that. Connelly being the left winger, although I noticed he as well as Best was popping up in various places often. In the 1968 Final they also played 4-3-3 really I think, but maybe more conservatively in midfield - Best lined up as right winger with Aston on the left anyway. I'm wondering now what formation United were deemed to play in the 65-66 game at Tottenham (if you remember I showed you highlights a while ago and we were discussing Greaves) - Best was more in the middle of the pitch than out wide and wore an 'inside forward' shirt number IIRC. If they played a 4-3-3 in the Benfica game then the midfield would be like this probably: ---------Best--------Charlton-------Crerand--------- I wouldn't know if Crerand (although he scored) would be instructed to play more defensively than Best or if they had similar roles but different attributes.
Did you link the full game to me back then? Of 65-66? Yes, I agree with you that Best seemed to play more advanced and even more like a '100% attacker' in the other Benfica game in 1968. I saw that too. His direct opponent was more often a full-back rather than a midfielder or (aggressive) centre-back. In the game at Da Luz stadium he took on the Benfica midfield, but it is difficult to really judge this based on 20-25 minutes highlights with a player who was not too rigidly tied to a certain position.
The Tottenham game - no, I haven't noticed the full game being available. It was mainly for footage of Greaves that I referred it to you at the time (he scored a goal after a dribble and played a nice assist too). It was brief highlights (mainly the goals but there were quite a few mostly to Tottenham although Man Utd reversed things at Old Trafford in the same season). I had noticed Best wearing an inside forward number though and being involved in the centre of the pitch possibly before Charlton's goal. It was the same season as the Benfica game albeit earlier on. Yes, I think he roamed or switched to the left or centre a bit in 1968 but probably out of his own instincts and was playing mostly in the attack and lined-up as right winger. Aston, who had a good game, played more as authentic left winger than Connelley in the 1966 game I think - maybe Aston's best asset being his pace and Connelley's being close control.
james in the most complete midfield section of you i miss 3 or mayeb 4 atg players. certainly bozsik and mario coluna should be in their ? also ersnt ocwirk imo and a case can eb made for masopust ?
You are right but half right ... Best was indeed RFW, while Crerand was RMF (to cover Best back) However, I think I posted a few times about Best's position (roughly in %) 45% as RFW 35% as LFW 20% as CAM/or trescartista (free role)
Sorry my post was confusing. I was talking about the 1966 game vs Benfica in Lisbon in a previous post (where Best appears to play in a midfield 3 like I listed). That line-up you posted is of course vs Benfica in the 1968 Final. I think you will understand my posts if you view all of todays but I should have said vs Benfica 1966 in the post you quoted. In 1968 yeah, he played like shown in your diagram (and I did make reference to that in my posts too in a different place).
Good find Puck. I did have a quick look at the video and strangely in the pre-match discussion (well 20 or 30 years after the game but in the discussion before the highlights start) a caption appears with Best given number 11 and Crerand number 8 (and Bobby Charlton didn't say it was wrong) but I fast-forwarded to within the game and there is number 8 George Best having a shot! I'll take a longer look, and try and analyse his role - those are pretty long highlights so should be possible...what did you think yourself?
I see ... if I was not mistaken, that game ManU played a more solid style 3 2 3 2 formation --------- Herd --------- D Law ---------- -- G Best ---- Charlton ---- Connelly-- ---------N Stilles ----- Crerand--------- ---Dunne ------ Folkes ---- Canwell---- --------------- G. Harry----------------- However, during the game, Best *was only 19, who forgot the Coach message (play SAFE since they won 3-2 1st leg) and stole the limelight ... so it became more like 4 3 3 with Crerand more withdrawn deep and Best more up high
I'm not sure mate - maybe @RoyOfTheRovers can help us but looking at the highlights it looks like the 4-3-3 he described that they sometimes played (with Best as midfielder) could be the most likely formation they played in that one. Connelly would be more from the left than the right I think anyway. Without seeing the highlights, I'd have thought that line-up you put above was quite likely (but probably with Best from the right side on that occasion) but I think it could have been 4-3-3 actually like I said (Stiles would have to be sort of a supplementary defender in that case though - I didn't notice him on the highlights tbh!).
What match are you trying to figure out United's formation and Best's position/role in, mate? Other posters are throwing around so many matches, formations, line-ups, etc. ...
Let's start w/what we know: Best was wearing the No.8 not the No.11 shirt... Paddy Crerand was wearing the No.10 shirt... Both No.8 and No.10 are the traditional inside-forward shirt numbers... Charlton was wearing the No.9 and fairly obviously playing as the so-called "deep-lying centre-forward" IMHO... BTW, I'm talking about the Dec. of '69 United v. Liverpool 1st Division match...
You should have known well by now ... English Football had NEVER followed the classic 2 3 5 squad numbering- at least not very popular with them ... from clubs to country
First off, I'm talking about shirt numbering in a "W-M" variant system (or shirt numbering at least influenced by the W-M) here; not the "pyramid"...
Thanks Roy. Mainly I was wondering about the Benfica vs Man Utd second leg in the European Cup in 1966, and if the 4-3-3 formation you mentioned was being used in it.
I've started watching that one now - so far Ron Yeats (in the studio) has scored an own goal and Bobby Charlton (in the studio) was "doing his best" to make excuses for him then Charlton gave the ball away for an equaliser and they were discussing that It is clearly a game where Best is playing 'up front' I would say, as a central forward.
Taking Charlton again as reference point, he seems to have played higher up on the field. In comparison with the Benfica 1966 game indeed. However, if the ball is played to the sides he tends to search a position around the borders of the penalty area rather than moving like a 'real' center-forward (towards the near or far post, as example).
Yes, maybe more like a Bergkamp type role than a Shearer type role I suppose. Maybe just the players characteristics though and preferences for where he wants to move. I didn't think there seemed to be a centre-forward in the traditional sense in the team, which makes sense if Charlton wore 9 and Creand (in midfield) wore 10. I haven't worked out the formation yet though.
Yes, it was one of the few games apparently without Brian Kidd (who often played a type of CF role) and without Law too. So it is possible that Best was lined-up as center forward but still had a natural tendency to not play like one.