The MLS Stadium Thread

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by fairfax4dc, May 20, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Whitecaps aren't leaving Vancouver any time soon.
     
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  2. sportie1

    sportie1 Member+

    Sep 4, 2008
     
  3. sportie1

    sportie1 Member+

    Sep 4, 2008
    quote- For starters, the Whitecaps need to hire someone or a better someone to handle their public relations. They're currently losing that battle in a rout.

    in fact, CEO, Axel Schuster, has done a tremendous job of presenting the Whitecap position of needing more revenue from BC Place games- he's got the Club an additional $1.5 mill from food and drink revenue already; and now the BC Government agent- PavCo- are talking about naming rights for the Stadium for the Club (which should have been done since 1983 when it opened) and will bring in another $3-4 mill- Axel has been open and clear about the Club's lack of revenue s- of course, there are negotiations which must be kept secret

    and the Club is willing to look at a SSS and other amenities for a lease of City-owned Hastings Park North land... at their cost after the old horse track is demolished this year

    the majority owner of the Caps, Greg Kerfoot, lives locally but has always remained a dark shadow... and he wants to keep it that way- new wealthy investors are waiting in the wings if a reasonable deal can be made that will respect their investment--- and of course, the majority owner, MLS, wants the best deal possible (and at the end of a long process in Columbus, they got what they wanted... a new SSS that makes the Club viable)

    having supported the Caps since 1974, i do believe the Club will stay in Vancouver, most likely at leasing land at Hastings Park North so they can acquire revenue beyond the SSS- its a great soccer market - i just dont believe MLS will be leaving and there is going to be less drama than what the Columbus supporters went through- by december31, 2026, we supporters will have a better picture what will happen for the next 4-5 years

    and i think its going to be VERY POSITIVE- this could be just part1 of what the Cap investors want
     
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  4. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    But eventually maybe? Vancouver and Montreal are among the financially weaker teams in MLS and seem logical candidates for relocation if MLS continues to grow economically but chooses not to expand.
     
  5. sportie1

    sportie1 Member+

    Sep 4, 2008
    wont happen in Vancouver- the Whitecaps will stay in MLS

    MLS will expand soon by 2 teams, making 32; then onto 34; then onto 36- the expansion money is too good to not do it - possible cities- Indianapolis; Phoenix, Detroit; Sacramento; Las Vegas; Oklahoma City; Tampa Bay; Raleigh; the unknown
     
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  6. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Expansion fees are primarily payments to offset dilution of league revenue streams like TV money that happen when you divide the pie into more pieces without renegotiating the size of the pie because pie size is set years in advance.

    The league doesn't expand to get expansion fees, it gets expansion fees when it expands to reduce harm to existing owner operators when it expands.

    Basically the expansion teams are paying back their share of league revenue for their first several seasons when they buy in. The longer term those agreements are and the more the value is per year, the higher the fee will be.
     
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  7. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member+

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it's a Ponzi scheme. Billy Haisley told me so.
     
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  8. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    What do the Comets have to say about it?
     
  9. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    22k seater in Chicago? Why do they keep on building small stasiums? Go at least 30k.

     
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  10. xtomx

    xtomx Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I agree. I just cannot understand the logic.

    When the first Chicago Fire Stadium was built in Bridgeview, I was talking to then Fire GM Peter Wilt about why the stadium was "only" 20,000.

    He said that the Fire had always drawn about 15,000-17,000 avg. a season (which is true up until 2024, when they surpassed 20,000 average for the first time). They built it at 20,000, to build up demand.

    If it sold out consistently, the plans were to expand by connecting the two sides of the stadium by putting an upper deck on the North end. It would expand the stadium to 27,000. It could be done in one year and was not projected (at the time to cost very much).

    Sadly, the Fire sucked then entire time they were in Bridgeview and the expansion was never needed.

    That made sense to me.

    This does not.
     
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  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it expandable? Toronto started smaller, but expanded as demand was higher than their number of seats.
     
  12. xtomx

    xtomx Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    No, as of the last renderings of the plans, there has been no mention that it was going to be expandable (at least not designed to be "easily expandable"), like in Bridgeview.

    That said, Joe Mansueto is a very, very smart human being. I have to think that they have had this discussion at some point along the planning phase of this project.

    Also, Toronto's stadium, at least in 2007 with they started, was pretty much junk. I was there that year and, well, it looked "unfinished," with one side pretty much open.
    Makes for simpler expansion (and, again, perhaps it was designed that way, like it was in Bridgeview).
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you'd looked at the City of Manchester (Etihad) Stadium it didn't look expandable but that managed to expand it, in situe, without closing anything.
     
  14. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego FC
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure your point I mean any stadium is expandable if you want to spend the money. Liverpool built a new Main Stand, and then a new Anfield Road stand without shutting the ground down. But it added cost and complexity (which adds cost) to the project. Doesn't make a ton of sense to build a 20,000 seat stadium with no easy expansion if you're expecting to expand. So unless there is a reference to it being designed from the start to expand, we can assume that they are not looking to expand/
     
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  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chicago ground breaking ceremony on March 3

     
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  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is no movement here. There was 6-8 years ago, but that project is defunct.
    I don’t know about 30K, but the Gals’ stadium size for sure. I mean, look at Nashville! (YEs, Orlando is the counterexample.)

    Whenever this comes up, people respond that consultants say the extra revenue you get isn’t worth the cost, unless you’re absolutely sure you’re going to sell the seats.

    I always wonder if those studies include the long term value of having more fans actually attend games, which solidifies fandom in a way watching on TV doesn't. I wonder if it factors in that some of the young adults sitting in the cheap seats now will want to upgrade to expensive seats as their careers and incomes grow. I wonder if they factor in the generational bonds that happen when a kid goes to a game with his dad (in the cheap seats) that work to attach a child’s happy memory of time spent with Dad to the local MLS team. All of the things I’ve mentioned here don’t show up in the annual financial report. But it certainly creates long term value for the franchise.

    Finally, I wonder if they factor in that aiming for constant sellouts can easily lead to the whole organization to take sellouts for granted. That can easily become a front office unconcerned about customer service, or unworried about going 3-4 years in a row being awful. IOW, to me, stadium size is a statement about the club’s ambitions. Building a 22K seater in Chicago, to me, is a red flag about this owner’s ambition.
     
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  17. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    22K seems a little small to me, given the population of the Greater Chicago Area. 25K would seem to me to be a good number. Though Red Bulls may have something to say about that. Orlando is a cautionary tale too, as they have struggled to fill their stadium on a consistent basis.

    My counterpoint is the Philadelphia Union. They have one of the smallest stadiums in the league now at 18,500 (it's probably closer to 18,700 now with the additions of some premium seats on the field). The FO has mentioned that they need to find creative ways to grow revenue as they can only raise ticket prices so much. Essentially saying that they've nearly maxed out the gameday revenue for the stadium. In order to spend more money, the Union need to bring in more money.

    Expanding Subaru Park is not an easy task either due to the property footprint. The league getting an improved media rights deal is imperative for every team in order to have spending increased across the league.

    We read and hear the scoffs when Don Garber proclaims that MLS is still very much a startup venture. It's true though. In order for MLS to improve it's sponsorship and media rights deals, they're going to have to spend more money and take losses for the next 5-10 years. Unfortunately, it looks as if the owners aren't willing to absorb those losses short term. I base this off of their cutbacks to their media and website departments (Apple TV game production, Spanish Language cutbacks, marketing, etc.).

    Teams looking to build new stadiums, or expand their existing building, need to think long term growth. They also need to realize that MLS is much more MLB than it is NFL. Gameday revenue is much more significant than media revenue these days.. IMO, that's not going to change in the foreseeable future either.
     
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  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    22k is fine. They stadium will be rocking for big games but won't look half empty on Wednesday evenings in March, or wet Wednesday nights in November once they shift the season. If every game sells out over the course of several years and there's a big ST waiting list, they can start to look at expansion.
     
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  19. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a supporting point, LAFC's stadium is just 22k really and they get this reputation of having this strong fan base but if you've paid attention there has been more and more and more empty seats as a regular basis for every match as the year's have gone on. Particularly starting to look bad last summer and heading into their season ticket renewal season. It's one of the reasons they needed to sign a guy like Son to reverse the obvious affect.

    22k works for the reputation it can create and the prices you can charge and I'm sure they'll have plenty of luxury stuff from day 1 to bring in all the revenue from all the "right" people.
     
  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    A week ago Axel Schuster spoke about Whitecaps needing 25-30 little steps on top of BC Place deal to make club more financially viable. Since then, we've seen VWFC have best ever first day jersey launch sales & now announcing 3,200 new season tickets. Moving in right direction
     
  21. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DeRo dreams of a retractable roof at BMO

     
  22. Egbert Sousé

    Egbert Sousé Member+

    NYCFC
    May 25, 2013
    nyc
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A somewhat inside look at the Etihad.

     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People complain about NYC's pitch width.

    Shrewsbury Town is narrower. 15' of grass either side of the pitch because they have a guy with a really long throw.

    Screenshot_20260218-132338.png
     
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  24. sportie1

    sportie1 Member+

    Sep 4, 2008
    of course a retractable roof would be terrific for TO- just wondering how much DeRo is going to put down of his own money for the concept
     
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  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A roof that covers the vast majority of fans would be a good start.
     

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