The MLS Stadium Thread

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by fairfax4dc, May 20, 2016.

  1. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's broad application and then there is completely misapplying something, particularly to the degree with which you did. It may be unfair that sports favors certain markets over others, but that doesn't move it into the arena of the type of discrimination that the "Don't cross the line" campaign is attempting to address.
     
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  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mod note: Okay folks, the last few posts (deleted or modified) have been a bit too much of hitting the player and not the ball. Please focus more on the ball.
     
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  3. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    LOL. You're reasoning is muddled.

    Discrimination exists in everything we do. The question is whether it is good or bad. TrueCrew rightly postulated that it is bad for a sports league to discriminate in the fair and evenhanded application of its rules among its teams and fans. The correctness of that position is self-evident.

    The only retort we have heard is that MLS is a "business," but being a business obviously does not justify otherwise invidious discrimination.

    And the fact that MLS's "Don't Cross the Line" campaign is not addressed to its own discriminatory behavior is not justification for such behavior. It is merely evidence of MLS' hypocrisy.
     
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  4. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously not. Had been working on something and had a $$ default setting on and forgot to turn it off.
     
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  5. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, the Rams are no sure thing in LA either. They've gotten a boost from being a pretty good team (debatable now) and the new stadium should help for a few years but if they suck consistently over the next 3-4 years I think LA will revert to 90s NFL form real quick. Even this year the Rams have had games with tons of empty seats and they were expected to be title contenders. LA just doesn't care that much about seeing the NFL in person.
     
  6. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please elaborate on this so-called "discrimination"

    I don't think the Don is granting special permission to certain clubs because they be his homeboy or something. The best package gets you in. Sometimes one group has a better ownership group, some might have a bigger media markets etc.

    Some teams came in at a better time and had more leeway, some teams had a golden boy sign a revolutionary contract at a weak point over a decade ago.

    That's not discrimination, it's discerning.
     
  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3457 TrueCrew, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
    Which you started, by the way.

    Look, if you are too simpleminded to get my obviously correct post on your own (and it appears you are), I'll break it down for you:

    Wanting teams in certain markets more than other markets and therefore letting some things slide in terms of expansion requirements (stadium plan, location, etc) = perfectly OK.

    Not applying the rules of the actual competition evenhandly for all the teams (player acquisition, salary rules, etc) = not OK.

    It is like saying all the teams can spend X dollars but LAG can spend X + $3 million. That sort of discrimination makes the actual part of the sporting competition a fraud. All the rules should apply evenly to everyone (it is called equal protection outside the sporting context, maybe you have heard of it?).

    I know of no league, certainly not in America, where they discriminate in the application of the actual rules of the competition.

    Your rant about moving the Chargers to LA makes my point, it does not disprove it, you really are in fantasy land if you think otherwise.

    It has zero to do with affecting that team on the field. Or the fairness of the competition. Nothing. It is all about prefering one market over another for a franchise (which is understandable, like I said).

    You apparently cannot discern between having a rule that benefits large market teams (like no salary cap in MLB, for instance); and changing/applying the rules that are in place to help a particular team/market or disadvantage another.

    The first category is about how the rules impact different teams. The second is an understanding that whatever the rules are, they should apply to everyone equally. My problem is with violations of the latter. Get the difference?

    The only thing that comes close to MLS' history is the NBA changing the cap rules so Boston could keep Larry Bird back in the 80s (a rule that has helped smaller market teams since). Or the veto of the CP3 trade to LA.

    Because MLS owns all the teams, MLS is not like the other leagues (though the NBA was running NO at the CP3 trade). MLS is willing to go get guys for some markets & not others (proven in the early years of the league). This undermines the fairness of the actual competition.

    Those of us around for the beginning remember. Thus we tend to be more critical of any instance of the league taking sides or treating different teams/bids differently.
     
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  8. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair point, I've gone back and edited out the comment from my post. Thank you for the correction.

    Whenever the rules were modified for the Galaxy, they were modified for the entire league, not just the Galaxy. Yes, the Galaxy were the first beneficiary, but the mechanism was implemented so that it could be taken advantage of by the other teams as well... Well, at least recently, there were certainly incidents in MLS's early years where certain clubs were given preferential treatment that the other clubs weren't able to take advantage of, but, again, the modifications of mechanisms to favor certain markets that you're complaining about are also common throughout sports. The luxury tax in MLB was specifically created to protect the dominance of large market clubs by allowing them to continue to outspend the smaller markets, then the luxury tax was modified to force small market clubs to spend a larger portion on player salaries because large market teams felt the small market teams were using the luxury tax to pad their bottom line. The NBA's convoluted cap system, again, favors large markets as they are often the only teams that can afford to use those mechanisms. Even if we go beyond the US and look at the global market, while the creation of Financial Fair Play may have been to stop teams from overspending their means, the implementation means that a small market team can't compete with a large market as the only way to grow a club in the global market is to spend your way to the top and there is no part of FFP that limits the amount that the top clubs can spend other than how much money they bring in.
     
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  9. SierraSpartan

    SierraSpartan Member+

    Jan 25, 2007
    Placer County, CA
    Club:
    Sacramento Republic FC
    You obviously have never watched the NBA playoffs.
     
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  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    We see this in "Cancel Culture" with people. We expect fully evolved and educated people at age 18. Anything they say at 18 will be used against them when they're 40. Any change of opinion will show that they are a flip-flopper or weak or hypocritical.

    It's the same thing with MLS. What MLS suggested was the way forward in 2006 is, to some, inviolate. They demand that the league - a private business - publish a concrete step by step manual with no exceptions that one must merely complete to be granted an expansion team. No gray areas, no evolving criteria. It's all so ridiculously naïve, but it's also how things are. Most of the complainers aren't really that stupid, they're just being disingenuous because they hold some other grudge (like forcing them to go two years without a team, or even threatening to take their team away) and are looking for any excuse to grab the moral high ground.

    Professional team sports tolerates the "purity of sport" in as much as it helps them. To pretend otherwise is a fool's errand.

    MLS is the circus part of "bread and circuses". It's a diversion, an entertainment.
     
  11. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Vancouver, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I sure hope we all watch sports of any kind because we find it fun. I don't see any other reason.
     
  12. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    For many fans it becomes tribal. And the real angst and conspiracy theories abound because when tribal allegiance becomes paramount, failure becomes intolerable or incomprehensible. And existential threats (folding/relocation) to the tribe create the most extreme reactions, often well beyond reason. Don has been going on like this since December, 2005, despite having a team against since 2008. Stinger will likewise likely continue looking for any perceived problem with MLS, Don Garber, or Austin FC for years. It's all pretty understandable - and tiring. I understand where they're at. I've had clubs I loved fold (Carolina Courage) and relocate (Kansas City Kings). But I transitioned from hard core fan to media. That forced distance is probably the main reason I'm not right there with them. But it is exhausting to keep having to refute the same shit over and over and over again here in supposedly neutral territory.
     
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  13. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    That is because it IS tribal.

    MLS is not selling soccer, or even entertainment, it's selling community. Try a re-branding to Merritt Paulson's Timbers and see how it goes over.
     
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  14. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Vancouver, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See, I'd just stop being a fan when it stopped being fun. I've endured a lifetime of being a Seattle Mariners fan and somehow it's still fun. If they left, I'd stop being a fan because it wouldn't be fun watching a Mariners free MLB. It hasn't been hard being a Timbers fan.
     
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  15. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You have no idea whether or not I'm being disingenuous (hint: I'm not).
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See pretty much any fan base and the belief the refs aren't bad, they're actively biased against them for *reasons*. Watching my Hawks last night I had to leave Field Gulls (the Seahawks SB Nation site) as the amount of conspiracy posting about the refs reached unbearable levels.
     
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  17. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Have the Ultras 1906 delivered the original Supporters Shield to the new NSHOF, yet?
     
  18. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If you say so.
     
  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Seems like you're the one harboring a grudge.
     
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  20. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    See as a Detroit Lions fan, the refs are biased against us because we've sucked for so long it's a natural instinct to assume that anything good we do is cheating. Completely understandable, actually.

    /that, and they're refusing to let us win anything until the Fords let the league give the Thanksgiving game to a bigger market.
     
  21. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Idle curiosity at this point. If Sam Pierron doesn't care anymore, there's no reason I should.
     
  22. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    As I informed you a long time ago on these boards, I'm the wrong person to ask. But, for some reason it seems, you believe I am being disingenuous.
     
  23. canammj

    canammj Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    CHINO, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -----------------------------
    Like some of the other posts in this thread, I am tired of the "goal line' (pun intended) always moving or changing.
    Once again, if NASH-MIA-AUSTIN-STL- SAC are all coming in with SSS and if you consider the last 2 teams in= LAFC has an awesome SSS and CINCY in the process of building one, what makes Charlotte so special ???
    An "old" NFL stadium (that would be the envy of many sporting teams around the world) and a billionaire ?
    The stadium is not good enough for NFL, but ok for soccer? Stepchildren again. I don't how much money he has, but he has the balls then to ask the city for $$$ "help" for his stadium ???
    There is no guarantee that Charlotte will be the next SEA or ATL in playing in an oversized stadium.
    If I were MLS god for the day, my contract with that Charlotte guy would be "incentive/attendance" based.
    If by "x" number of years you aren't at "y" amount of attendance, you need to build a SSS to match not your expectations, but your actual performance :thumbsdown:
     
  24. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I’m not particularly happy with Charlotte moving to the front of the line because I’d selfishly like a team in PHX, Charlotte isn’t just coming in with an older NFL stadium. From everything I’ve read their stadium would be upgraded to the tune of $100 to $200 million in conjunction with getting an MLS team and they are also planning ~ $100 mln investment in a team HQ and training facilitiy. Now, everything I’ve read also indicates that Tepper is looking for the city to finance a good chunk of this... best I can tell around 50%. So, MLS need to ensure funding is in place prior to awarding them a team. However, reports are they also have 60 corporate commitments for suite sales to the tune of $100K per annum a pop and Ally financial has already agreed to become the team’s sponsor. Those two things alone should amount to well over $10mln per year in revenue without them selling a ticket and I’d be kinda surprised if they also weren’t able to regularly attract 30K plus fans based on that location and what other franchises have been able to do recently.

    IF all that is born out by proper due diligence, I don’t have a problem with MLS awarding a team to Charlotte. Definitely sounds like it has a better chance of being another Seattle or Atlanta situation than a NER one.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bi...ve-panthers-city-exploring-mls-hq-at.amp.html
     
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  25. RafaLarios

    RafaLarios Member+

    Oct 2, 2009
    Medellín
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    The fact that BoA stadium, seating 75K and opened in 1996 is considered by some obsolete in any standard is incredible.

    The stadium in my city was built in 1953 with minumin renovations and there are people that still call it handsome.... and they are wrong. But come on. BoA has only 25 years!
     
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