The "Messi: the best player in the world. Is it even up for discussion?" thread

Not a lot. Not currently on home so can't check, but I don't think he's missed any, so transfermarkt probably has the correct info.

 

74 Inter Miami beats MLS regular season point record
36 Messi tops regular season GA with 20+16 in 19 games
33 Messi becomes Inter Miami's all-time top scorer
20 Messi and Suarez become first players in the same club to get over 20 goals in MLS regular season
4 Messi becomes the first substition to achieve 3+1 in MLS
3 Messi becomes the first top scorer in two clubs and national team in football
1 Inter Miami qualifies for 2025 Fifa Club World Cup after winning the regular season



Next up MLS playoffs

 

Messi really elevates Miami and MLS as a whole.

 

Career 60th hat-trick

 

Players with the most Dribble Completions in history Since 2006-07 season by Opta.

Lionel Messi—2,538 dribbles
Eden Hazard—1,285 dribbles
Franck Ribéry—1,061 dribbles
...

 

Also higher than 60% success rate. Highest volume + highest % success + most aesthetic.

 

All-time assist leader in national teams:

• Lionel Messi (Argentina) - 59 assists
• Landon Donovan (USA) - 58 assists
• Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal) - 42 assists
• Thierry Henry (France) - 41 assists
• David Beckham (England) - 40 assists

 

It's not just about style, it's about atributes.

Yamal it's a diff player, if he ends with a better carreer? who knows.
Yet he is more like a Figo, Iniesta or Laudrup sort of player, yet with what it seems a more goal goal oriented urge than those.
He doesn't have the atributtes of young Ney neither, even if it's his idol.

Of course there would be similarities, like Messi had with the aforementioned, but the level of power, pace, athletism, dribbling of La Pulga its directly in correlation to his approach and style and of other Geniuses like Diego and on a lesser extent Ney (in terms of being less intelligent and assertive) in their youth.
That "lack" of those freaky atributes/ characteristics in Yamal, it's compensated with his incredible maturity to exploit so greatly the huge talent and skills he has at this very young age under the biggest spotlight.

I get the enviroment, "La Masia", the irruption, but the young kid it's quite a different player, people sometimes forget how explosive young Diego, Messi and Ney were and how having such traits makes you in a way more leniant to be more sellfisch (even if at their core they were always team players and playmakers) and way more prone to dribble even through walls and entire teams.

 

I really dont see the needs to compare him to Messi, which is impossible. That would only creates huge burden on him. I'm sure a top class talent like Yamal would develop his own trademark style of play, much like Iniesta. That's what really matters. As far as having better a career or not, that would really depend on so many other factors outside talent (Injuries, great manager, great teammates, luck etc). Based on talent, R9 should have won at least 3 CL titles.

Remember when Mbappe won WC before age 20 ? more than half decade since then, he's yet to win anything notable outside Ligue 1... if that's even count as big feat.

 

tbf, he played in France every season of his career. So, its difficult to win more than the Ligue 1 title multiple times, domestic cups and a World Cup when you play in France. Guess, he could've had a CL by now but he is still young.

 

What silly award is this for? And is it for the calendar year (2024) or last season (2023-24)?

I love Yamal, but he wasn't at this level last season. Basically, just hit the next level with Spain after the club season was already over. IF its for the calendar year, then completely ridiculous to have Mbappe and Bellingham in there. Both have been average at best since around March for both club and country.

And Messi? come on... Makes me wonder if he's still going to be nominated for these types of awards in the years after he retires.

 

Copa America, MLS-season record and best performance ratings of all. Definitely deserves it.

 

Did not know about this. The only non Bayern Munich related item in their museum is Messi's shirt displayed together with Gerd Müller's 1973 Ballon d'Or and 71-72 European Golden Shoe.



The story behind this. Bastian Schweinsteiger: "When Messi broke Gerd Müller's record with 91 goals, Müller showed up in Bayern training, proudly wearing a Messi shirt and said: 'Look who sent me his shirt, IT'S MESSI.' He was truly honored and because Leo also wrote him a letter, saying: 'Thank you for making me work hard to break this historic record. This shirt is for you." Müller then placed the shirt in the Allianz Arena Museum, making it the only item not belonging to the club.

 

MLS doesn't matter. And the Copa win was more of a team effort compared to WC 2022. If you're honest with yourself, James had a better Copa against much better teams.

But I guess if Mbappe made this list it tells you where the bar is for someone with a big name.

 

It does, this isn't Ballon d'Or where only European things matter. Yes James had better Copa, and Messi was in the team of the tournament in a winning team. But this isn't Copa only, and James has played only 172 minutes of league football in 2024, so in no shape of form should James be running this before Messi.

 

I wasn't in any way suggesting James should be included in this list. Just pointing out that Messi was far from the top player in the Copa. He was just "good", like many other players on Argentina.

But this isn't a "good" player list, it's supposed to be the best. The idea that Messi, while playing in MLS (and injured/not playing for a good chunk of the season) was better in 2024 than an Odegaard, Lautaro Martinez, etc is quite preposterous.

Even a super Messi fan must admit the list has no credibility given the inclusion of Mbappe, who has been off his game for most of 2024, including the whole business end of last season and the entire Euros. Let that sink in.

 

With that kind of logic only Rodri should be there.

League ratings
8.30 Messi MLS 24 #1
7.53 Lautaro SeriaA 23-24 #1
7.37 Odegaard PL 23-24 #11

Nothing says Odegaard performed better in league, Lautaro could be there. And I agree Mbappe shouldn't be there.

 

Of course, if you are playing against poor defenders, it will help your stats.

 

Poor defenders, poor team mates so it almost evens itself out. Dribbling/tackling as an individual skills will improve ratings. But as pitches in MLS are half turf it also probably evens, or even worsens dribbling/tackling potential. From gut feeling Messi's goals have been more individualistic in MLS.



As seen here, ratings have been pretty identical in two years, no matter where played, Busquets even went down from La Liga to MLS.

 

That's just not true. If that was true, why doesn't Arsenal go out and sign Andy Cook from Bradford City? He is getting high player ratings in League 2, so surely he would get those same ratings in EPL, right? Maybe even higher since the pitch at the Emirates Stadium is better.

It doesn't even out because there is no "deflator" applied after the ratings are calculated to account for the quality of the league. There are certain things you can't do as easily when the competition is higher, even though your teammates are better too. The feeling that Messi is more individualistic in MLS supports this point.

There is a reason why Messi ratings were dropping as he got older (albeit slowly, but that's expected since Messi's decline has been very slow), and then all of a sudden jumped back up to 8.3 in 2024. Hint: It's not because 2024 Messi is as good as 2014 Messi.

 

Yes it is. The worse team mates you have, the worse passes, runs, positions, chances you get. It's not all positive. That's also why Messi is more individualistic in MLS.

Messi's ratings have been in steady decline, still being the best in the world to this point. I just showed they were equal as in 22-23 in Ligue 1, there hasn't been obvious detoriation. The most obvious factor in Messi's ratings have been injuries, like 13-14 and 21-22.

18-19 8.48 La Liga
19-20 8.71 La Liga
20-21 8.52 La Liga
21-22 7.77 Ligue 1 (long covid and almost career ending injury)
22-23 8.28 Ligue 1
24 8.30 MLS

Nothing says Messi's has been obviously worse, than normal slow decline. Messi just had so much headroom to everyone else, that he still have the best performance ratings when fit.

 

I don't disagree with that. I'm just saying it doesn"t "even out". An "8" in MLS isn't as good as an 8 in La Liga, obviously.

 

No, but the difference isn't 1 point either, or 1 goal per game.

 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/inter-miami-s-lionel-messi-named-2024-landon-donovan-mls-mvp

MLS 2024 MVP as expected.