The "Messi: the best player in the world. Is it even up for discussion?" thread

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by jfcule, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Three goals in two matches, just to be clear. Nothing in that piece of data to suggest Estonia are tougher to beat in qualifying than in a friendly. Especially considering they also conceded 5 goals in one of those games against Belgium.
     
  2. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    For WCQ, Estonia conceded 21 goals in 8 games in a group with Belgium, Wales, Czech, Belarus conceding 8 to Belgium in 2 games. In Euro 2020Q they conceded 28 goals in 8 games and with 11 goals to Germany and 9 to Netherlands.

    Now, friendlies are not always representative of competitiveness, but losing 5 x 0 to Argentina looks pretty representative of Estonia's quality given their performance in competitive games. So gain, what case are you making here for Estonia ? It's clear that Brazil and Argentina would put goals galore against these types of opponents and their forwards would benefit greatly with inflated number of goals.
     
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  3. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Belgium scored 8 goals in 2 matches vs them.
     
  4. verde-rubro

    verde-rubro Member+

    C.S.Maritimo + Liverpool FC
    Portugal
    Jan 15, 2005
    LONDON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    A Belgium team ranked 1st 2nd or 3rd in the world should not be conceding 3 goals to Estonia, should they?
     
  5. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Why is @carlito86 repeating the CL stats? We are talking about International play meaning with the national team.

    And if you want to cherrypick Ronaldo's stats from Jan 2013 and say he has 80 goals in 88 appearances then I can take prime Lukaku's stats from Jan 2016 and he has 57 goals in 60 appearances.

    As for Messi again... in 7 matches against sides not in the top 100, he as 12 goals in 3 assists. Needless to say that if he played dozens upon dozens of matches against the likes of Estonia he would have a lot more international goals.

    And again, Messi dominated Ronaldo in knockout stages of international tournaments. Messi's assist rate is literally insane... 16 assists in 24 matches is ludicrous! International tournaments especially the World Cup and then Euro/Copa are the only matches that really actually matter when discussing international careers.
     
  6. verde-rubro

    verde-rubro Member+

    C.S.Maritimo + Liverpool FC
    Portugal
    Jan 15, 2005
    LONDON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    #7506 verde-rubro, Jun 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
    The argument was you keep bashing Ronaldo for playing Estonia, Latvia etc but you seem to forget that Portugal’s groups does not consist of only Estonia Latvia etc, all groups has 2 or 3 minor teams and top strikers has to play these teams and other strikers does not have the numbers of penessi and Ronaldo at international level.

    there are 2 qualifying campaigns in Europe, and there will always be (depend on size of group) 2 to 3 minors teams
    And South America there is one qualifying campaign and 2 to 3 minors teams.
    Copa America there is no qualifying so you still be playing 2 or 3 minors teams.
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    FFS bro youre so weird

    This has NOTHING to do with peak
    It has to do with position
    Ronaldo was not a striker before 2013 for Portugal
    Get that in your skull!!!!

    Post 2013 Ronaldo isn't peak or non peak its when he became a STRIKER


    Stürmer
    centroavante
    足球前锋
    You have to suffer from some kind of mental deficiency not to understand this point


    20220606_112527.JPG

    20220606_112554.JPG






    Striker
    20220606_192835.JPG

    20220606_112500.JPG


    20220606_193206.JPG
    20220606_193131.JPG

    Its not cherry picking
    Its called CONTEXT retard
     
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  8. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That argument makes no sense. Crap teams sometimes score goals. Somebody should even need this comparison to know that Argentina and Brazil would score tons of goals on teams like Estonia and etc ...
     
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  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    This 'argument' about Estonia being a very different proposition in a competitive match than a friendly is bizarre to say the least. What exactly does a competitive match really mean for Estonia in the first place? They go into a match against Belgium in last place or near last in a group where only finishing in the top 2 matters. How will their mind set be so fundamentally different than when playing Argentina in a friendly?

    False equivalency.

    The minor UEFA teams you are referring to are ranked around #90 to 150 in the world. While the CONMEBOL teams you are describing by the same term are ranked #40 to 50 in the world.
     
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  10. evil_allan

    evil_allan Member+

    May 3, 2004
    Turtle Island
    if anything, its a bigger game for them as it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to face up against one of the most storied nations in world football, led my the goat himself.
     
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  11. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    You're missing the point bud. No one is saying Lukaku is as good or better than Ronaldo just that Ronaldo's higher goalscoring rates for his national team make sense when we consider the level of competition. European stars generally have much higher scoring rates than those in South America. There is a reason for that... a lot of minnows to statpad against.
     
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  12. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Five words nullifies six charts and half a day’s work. :D
     
  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #7513 carlito86, Jun 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
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  14. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
     
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
  17. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
     
  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  19. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  20. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    That there are no Estonias in CONMEBOL, I assume. :cool:
     
  21. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #7521 carlito86, Jun 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
    A peasant team is a peasant team

    No matter the altitude,humidity or home advantage

    I speak for all of Argentina when I say that we do not fear the altitude,” Maradona told the cheering crowd at halftime.

    “All of us have to play where were we were born, my brothers and sisters.



    This cowardly generation has 168 different excuses
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    But can Maradona do it on a cold November night in Estonia?
     
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  23. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nor are there any Cypruses.

     
  24. evil_allan

    evil_allan Member+

    May 3, 2004
    Turtle Island
  25. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messi has a whopping 1100 goal contributions (goal + assists) in his career which is probably the most in history. He's turning 35 in a couple of weeks.
     

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