The "Messi: the best player in the world. Is it even up for discussion?" thread

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by jfcule, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  2. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi 55, Cronaldo 56
     
  3. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    He passed Penaldo in club hat tricks but not overall.
     
  4. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Actually, he's still the top scorer even before these 4 goals. So its like Sonic collecting golds at bonus level.
     
  5. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think he means European Golden Shoe, Immobile still leads with 27 goals.
     
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  6. Gilmango

    Gilmango Member+

    Jul 20, 2006
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like there is some controversy on where the assist #s come from and what is being tracked but supposedly Messi first to eclipse 1,000 goal involvements (goals plus assists):
    696 goals.

    306 assists.

    Lionel Messi is the first player to ever achieve over 1,000 total goal contributions.

     
    ShortyMac repped this.
  7. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I hate when some media does this. Messi has 707 official goals at senior level, not 696. First they quote Pele and Müller being over 700 goals (including regional and 7th level), and then suddenly change the methods of counting without even realizing it.
     
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  8. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    There is no the reason 11 goals from 2nd and 3rd division shouldn't count. They are senior level goals so he has 707 in total.
     
  9. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    I could watch the first two goals forever. Incredible.
     
  10. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Still an outside chance for Messi to win the Euro golden shoe. Lewandowski out the next 4 weeks or so, which could mean that Messi will play 6 more league games than Lewa to make up the 8 goal deficit.

    Of course, there are other players in the chase but Lewa looked to be uncatchable.
     
  11. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Lewa is injured?
     
  12. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I dont think Messi is desperate for that. The closest to his record is penaldo and he only has 4 while Messi has 6. Messi also the only player to win it with 100 points when he scored 50 in 2011-2012 season.
     
  13. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    Ciro Immobile is the one actually in front, with 27 — even ahead of Lewandowski.
     
  14. ShortyMac

    ShortyMac Member+

    Barcelona
    Apr 10, 2011
    Ohio, USA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. ShortyMac

    ShortyMac Member+

    Barcelona
    Apr 10, 2011
    Ohio, USA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Looks like Neymar is in Mbappe’s shadow. :sneaky:
     
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  17. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    About 1500 less mins played and playing deeper role ? Not really.
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Well maybe not for the full time period in question, but certainly since the start of last season. The only reason Neymar's (goals+assists)/minutes is slightly higher than Mbappe is because of 2017-18 when Mbappe was 18 years old. For last 2 seasons, I reckon Mbappe would be #2 on that overall list for top 5 leagues.

    (Also fewer minutes played is part of the argument, not an excuse -- you're not gonna be the talk of the town when you're injured while a teammate is scoring for fun).
     
  19. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It's Ligue 1 ... he is going to score for fun regardless of Neymar. PSG are still stacked with or without Neymar in comparison to rest of Ligue 1. Mbappe gets loads of scoring chances and honestly hasn't been a clinical killer in front of the goal. He squanders loads of chances.

    If Neymar is healthy I think he is still the main guy in that team. But it's a different set of skills between the two. Neymar used to do what Mbappe does for Barca but I don't see Mbappe having the skills to play the deeper role as Neymar does. Although you could argue Neymar is more replaceable than Mbappe. You could have a solid more direct midfield without Neymar and have the same if not better effect.
     
  20. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Crazy to think Messi has 34% more direct goal contributions than the next one, and he's still probably leading dribbles, chances, big chances and through balls too.
     
  21. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    I suspect the gap would be quite a bit more than 34% if you include one more season (i.e. 2016-17).
     
  22. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Agree with celito that Neymar when healthy is still better than Mbappe because he creates a ton of chances for others. It is close though.
     
  23. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Probably the worst classico performance from Messi.
    It also shows that our team now complete lack of creativity. No one can create space for Messi and Messi doesnt have anyone to share his work.
    Hope Suarez recover well and could come back as soon as possible
     
  24. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    Messi is also injured - whether he scores 4 goals or not. An injury that doesn’t prevent him from playing but is causing him discomfort.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/01/barc...imps-off-team-bus-real-madrid-clash-12330058/

    He was also touching his thigh constantly during the warm up before the game against Napoli. A camera followed his whole warm up.

    “Messi is playing 90mins in EVERY game with a thigh injury. There is literally no sub for him at RW. He has to play. So I am not surprised. This Barca Board is arguably the worst one ever, for allowing a big club like this to deplete to the point of running out of players.”

    1232629532403884032 is not a valid tweet id



    Sources at ESPN say Messi has had a left thigh injury since January.

    “In the beginning of February, the news broke down from reliable sources at ESPN saying that Messi was having some discomfort in his left thigh since weeks now.”
     
  25. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Every player will have the occasional dud even Messi who sucked by his standards against LPB. I don't know if I would say injury is limiting him. In that interview the other day (a few posts back...) he said he hasn't felt this good in years and looked very quick and sharp against Eibar. I think his struggles have to do with good teams throwing the kitchen sink at him taking away his space and making others beat them. And rightfully so... Apart from Messi, none of our other players inspire ANY fear in the opponents. And did you see Messi's heat map from yesterday's match? He spent half of his time in our own half or in the middle of the pitch and had so few touches in general.
     
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