The Maturation of Ante Razov and the National Team

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Karl K, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    I'd be pretty surprised if Twellman or Razov make the WC squad. But what do I know?
     
  2. CUS

    CUS New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Ante Razov has 6 goals in 22 caps--including a couple big goals in qualifying.

    Also IIRC, Ante was the first alternate on the WC squad--the next to go in case of injury.

    JMM has also played mid, so it almost makes sense to take a two position guy rather than a one position guy.

    But yes, I agree. Ante has REALLY stepped into a leadership position within the Fire. Also, he has taken Damani Ralph under his wing to mentor him through the start of his career. That seems to be going well ;)
     
  3. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bingo!

    (or Kingston, or Vancouver, or goodness knows where else!)
     
  4. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    Chicago
    I was wrong about the week interval but I think I was right about the World Cup Roster:
    April 14, 2002 Razov scores 5 in Milwaukee
    April 27, 2002 1 at New England
    May 4, 2002 1 v. DC
    May 19, 2002 3 at New England
    He scored 2 more on June 2, for a toal of 12 in 1 1/2 months.
    If I recall correctly, due to an injury to Chris Armas, Coach Arena named one more member of the World Cup team on or around May 18, 2002. I believe Steve Cherundolo was selected as the 9th "midfielder" on the sqaud and was on the bench on May 19, 2002 when the U.S. got pasted by Holland in front of a dull audience in Foxboro. In the Revs-Fire game which followed, Ante scored 3 goals. So Coach Arena knew Razov was the hottest U.S. player when he decided to go with 4 forwards and 9 midfielders and chose Cherundolo instead of Razov.
    We sure could have used Razov in the second half against Germany. It was a tragic mistake, to repeat the title of a thread I started after the Holland game, to leave Razov at home.
     
  5. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Best.
    Post.
    Ever.

    I blame Julie Foudy.

    So we should have brought a guy who didn't play all that incredibly in 2002 until he got pissed off about not making the team just to sub in for the guys who combined for four goals in the World Cup? And he would have come off the bench ahead of Mathis, who had scored twice against Germany in a friendly and had scored our best individual effort goal of the tournament?

    Could we have taken Ante instead of JMM? Sure we could have. But to pin a loss against Germany on that decision is just frigging delusional. Ante can be a valuable performer for the Nats. He played a huge role in our qualifying. But anyone who really watched that team with a modicum of reason would have trouble saying that any one player would have made a difference either way.
     
  6. tubby_butter

    tubby_butter Member

    Mar 22, 2002
    Providence
    To narrow down the selection decision, lets look at who Razov was really competing with for that roster spot.

    The following list is narrowed down to the ones I consider the 'bubble' players:

    In a WC, you really need cover in the defense, due to high probability of card accumulation. Combine that with our huge question marks in the back , I think it is safe to rule out any multi-position player who could've stepped in at defense. This includes:

    Hejduk - could play a possible 4 positions (outside midfield or defense - either side). Combine that with his fearless play and good attitude, he may have been more of a lock than we think.
    Mastroeni - one of the surprises at the time, but showed that he could play either center-back or d-mid.
    Lewis - remember the Lewis-to-left-back experiment? Could have potentially play D in a jam, and played one of the more traditionally-subbed positions late in the game - winger.
    Vanney - Would've been Armas' replacement, if not for injury. Again, could play either outside mid or d.
    Cherundolo - Along w/Vanney, I don't see him as Razov's competition for that last injury spot. Able to play def or mid, he was there to simply provide cover in the back. Remember, pre-WC Sanneh wasn't exactly on fire.
    Beasley - I don't think anyone disagrees with the decision to take him over Razov, but for arguments sake, Bruce had mentioned his defensive skills - and as a possible left back.

    Next, I think we can rule out the center-backs, Berhalter and Llamosa. We simply had no depth there after Pope, and Agoos was a possible LB candidate, leaving a spot for a possible one center back on the bench.

    One could certainly argue that Regis could've been dropped in favor of Razov. But, he was simply the only true left back that we had on the team. I suppose if any of the LB 'experiments' got worked over by opposing teams, there was always Regis.

    Next, attacking players:

    Jones - An experienced veteran, and clearly a favorite of Bruce's, one could argue that Razov would've been more dangerous. But clearly Jones was brought in to kill off games by putting pressure on opposing defenses while we had a lead. And I think he did so admirably.

    So I think it comes down to a choice between taking Razov and the following two players:

    Moore - Both he and Razov were influential in qualifying. But Moore could not only play midfield if called upon, he is known for the better workrate Bruce likes from forwards.
    Wolff - the one I see as the biggest head-scratcher for the coaching staff. Like Razov, the only true forward in this particular mix. Contributed in qualifying, but was injured for most of the latter part. The reason for his inclusion is a toss-up. Maybe his speed put him over the top. Or maybe attitude had a big part to play. In the end, he had his part in the success, so I'm not sure you can, even in hindsight, say this was a mistake.

    The one thing you never know in a WC, is how injuries and suspensions are going to play out. I guess, only after the fact, you can say he should've been included over Cherundolo, Regis, and possibly Llamosa or Joe-Max.

    Having said all of that, I am positive Razov will have a part to play in qualifying. Sarachan is singing his praises, he is scoring goals on the best team in MLS (even when the Quakes beat them in the finals :) ), MVP candidate, and he has big-game qualifying experience, which is something the other up-and-coming forwards don't have.
     
  7. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    Chicago
    I was wrong about Hejduk. He played very well in Korea. You could have dropped Regis, Llamosa or Agoos, or all three, and added Bocanegra and Razov. Did anyone really expect Cherundolo to get any playing time when he was added to the roster instead of Razov? We went to Korea with 4 forwards. Moore was in a slump and Mathis lost interest in conditioning. Moore cannot play midfield at the international level, as evidenced by the Mexico game in Azteca.
    Razov continues to be in the doghouse and was left behind in favor of Kirovski for the Confederation Cup. We scored 1 goal in 3 games. Razov should be on the national team.
     
  8. CUS

    CUS New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    This is hindsight. Besides if you did, who would you get to play central defense?
    Boca was just coming off an injury (broken toe) and not fully fit for WC competition. Also see note above.

    As has been noted, Razov is a one tool guy.
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if the Germany game was fixed, Thomas, what difference would it have made?
     
  10. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    Chicago
    Sometimes you win a game that is not on the level. Sometimes you tie. It makes it harder but it does happen.
    Bruce Arena is an excellent coach. I have always said that, never calling for his head when things were not going well. This is the hot stove league, with no games on the horizon but qualifying not so far off.
    The Razov situation is a bit puzzling because Coach Arena usually lets bygones be bygones and gives players a second chance. I hope he gives Ante a call in 2004.
     
  11. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    Ditto.
     
  12. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yawn.
     
  13. sljohn

    sljohn Member

    Apr 28, 2001
    Out of town
    As to why Razov is (or was) in the dog house, I got the impression it was because he caused problems in the Nats locker room when he didn't start. Note: that's not a problem he has in Chicago, so saying he's not a "cancer in the locker room" in Chicago doesn't tell us much in that case.

    I remember many years ago in a Nats match that Razov was on the bench for, that Jack Edwards was droning on about how much of a player's coach Arena was and as an example said that Arena had even spent over an hour talking with Razov on game day--over an hour talking with a player that wasn't even starting that day--to make sure he was okay with it.

    I also remember some time during the WC run-up, perhaps in the late Fall after WCQ (?), that Arena made comments about the importance of chemistry and something along the lines that some of the players in the pool needed to decide about their willingness to be team-players. There was discussions on bigsoccer about which players he was talking about, and Razov's name came up as a potential candidate. [Friedel and Keller may have been others.]

    If so, one concern that Arena may have about Razov is if his willingness to accept being on a team where is not a guaranteed starter every match. That factor may have been a "tie-breaker" consideration that kept him on the bubble as a WC alternate.

    Final note. Wynalda, in a recent comment about Razov as an MVP candidate, made an off-hand remark that sounded a whole lot to me like he didn't like Razov as a person (although he respected his performance this season).
     
  14. StingRay37

    StingRay37 Member

    Dec 4, 2000
    North Carolina
    Orange Traffic Cone.
     
  15. lagerbhoy

    lagerbhoy New Member

    Oct 22, 2003
    Parkhead
    Remember when a certain overrated striker missed all those easy attempts against Germany?

    I do.

    I also know that Razov would of buried 'em.

    Donovan is overrated. The only reason he keeps winning awards is because the media only know his name. The MLS and the US does a horrible job marketing the game to adults in this country and refuse to admit they were wrong about Donovan being America's golden boy.

    I'm FIRE till I die
    I'm FIRE till I die
    I know I am
    I'm sure I am
    I'm FIRE till I die
     

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