two completely different incidents, but if you read some of the press reports, they would seem to be the same. razov had clear intent, arriving when the ball wasn't in the area. may have been one of the worst playoff fouls i've seen, maybe second only to serna's elbow last year. that was a clear red and ante should receive additonal fines and suspensions. mathis did not have the force nor the intent, and is subsequently blamed for the team's demise. comparing the 2, you'd have to agree mathis should've received a yellow.... also, anyone surprised heaps didn't get a card for punching razov in the leg after the foul....it was retaliation, though very understandable.
I agree that the Mathis foul was nowhere near as egregious as Razov's. If Mathis's foul was a red, A-hole's should be a red plus multi-game suspension. As to Heap's retaliation, I looked at the videotape this morning, and it didn't look like a punch to me -- more of a slap, and with hardly any force. In fact, I thought it looked kind of wimpy.
Exactly. Mathis' was red since he stepped on a player while down. Razov's should be multiple games. The fact that you can distinguish different levels of red cards doesn't mean that one wasn't deserved (Mathis).
I also agree that Mathis' foul was nowhere as egregious as Razov's. Mathis stepped on Chino Alegria in a way that could arguably have been characterized as a continuation of Mathis' forward motion (though I believe that Mathis intended to step on Chino and just hoped he could disguise it well). Razov turned back toward Heaps after the play had ended and stomped on his groin in what looked like attempted sterilization. If MLS disciplinary procedures mean anything, Chicago should be without Razov's services for a number of games next season. JohnnyRev is right, too, about Heaps' response. Given what had occured, it was a most half-hearted slap.
Wait a minute...Razov got a red, according to game accounts. Are you saying he didn't? And if Razov DID get a red, what the hell is your point about Mathis? I mean, what Osama bin Laden did was worse than what Charles Manson did, so Manson should have gotten a lesser sentence. WTF????????? By the way, has anyone staked a claim on the OBL corollary to Godwin's Law? If not, I hereby proclaim superdave's corrollary to Godwin's Law. Heaps went to Duke, therefore this was a good idea.
Re: Re: Re: the Mathis Red Card vs. the Razov Red Card You are wrong, Razov was shown an immediate red card. He does deserve more suspension/fine. Otherwise anyone on their way out of a playoff series can injure a player on the other team late in the game with virtually no penalty. His season is over anyway.
Re: Re: Re: Re: the Mathis Red Card vs. the Razov Red Card i'm sorry...where in my post did i say razov didn't or shouldn't have gotten a red? the title of my thread says he did. what are you guys reading? my previous post was sarcastic.
Both were red cards, plain and simple. MLS justice is a little difficult to figure out, because it's been so inconsistent over the years. But, if these two fouls had happened at the FIFA level, in international competition (which is relevant, because Mathis could lose his cool for the USMNT, too), the suspensions would be pretty steep. Judging by past similar actions (most notably, Zidane's in 1998 against Saudi Arabia), Mathis could expect at least a 2 match ban, while Razov would most certainly be looking at anywhere from 4-8 matches. Alas, FIFA won't be levelling the suspensions. I hope for a 4 match+ ban to Razov (it will send a message that you don't have free reign to assault opponents when you're eliminated in the playoffs) but I fear a 2 game suspension (regular match + one more) with a fine.
Your absolutely right. He deserves at minimum a 3-4 match ban. Truly a disgraceful act. Then he had the nerve to mouth off to the fans giving him the guff on the way to the tunnel. What got up his *ss anyway?
Razov defined in Webster's: One footed plodding sorry ass bitch no longer in USMNT plans for the future.
An early vacation Heaps is far from the cleanest player I've seen, but this was rediculous. Razov should see a hefty fine and suspension. The game was over. Quit crying and leave Auntie. Go take it out on your boyfriend.
Re: Re: Re: Re: the Mathis Red Card vs. the Razov Red Card I don't know what game you were watching man, but Stinky's right, he DIDN'T get a red card. As a matter of fact, the ref introduced him to his only virgin daughter, (not that all his other daughters are whores), and asked that Razov father his grandchildren. I've never seen a ref do that before.
Both Mathis and Razov got what they deserved - immediate red cards. Hopefully Razov will receive a ban of at least two or three games at the start of next season. He should also get a fine from the league.
Mathis's foul wasn't an attempt to right himself, or any continuation of motion. It was a deliberate stomp, and well deserving of a red card. Rasov's foul was worse, both in force and the fact that he had to take a step to get close enough to stomp on Jay. I'd give Rasov about 3 games (beyond his 1 game automatic suspension), but I'd also give Mathis an extra game off just so people know that I'm serious. Physically attacking players who are in prone positions shouldn't be tolerated at all. While I'm at it, I'd probably give Llamosa at least a solid fine for knocking the flag out of the linesman's hands when he was ejected on Sunday.
It's interesting what a huge difference of opinion there is on the deliberateness and severity of Mathis' infraction. Metros fans are split on it, and non-Metros fans are split on it. I'd say anyone who claims any certainty on this is full of crap. Any deliberateness is impossible to discern, and there was no force behind the stomp, making any discussion of improper force moot. There's just no comparison between these two incident, and clearly, since the league hasn't said squat about Mathis' play beyond the regular suspension, there isn't going to be an additional suspension.
Ante deserves more than a game. Then again, this is the league where Diego Serna got one game for punching a guy in the face.
I wanted to post that exact thought. I remeber seeing it and thinking Heaps acted every bit like Nathan Lane's character in "Bird Cage". Wimpy is being kind to Heaps. He looked effeminate, probably the only reason he didn't get carded for the "slap" .
I think what you meant to say is that anyone who disagrees with you is full of crap. Unless you are a big Mathis or Metros fan, the video clip was pretty damning. The fact that Mathis's coach said that he needs help controlling his anger and the fact that his GM said that Mathis cost his team a playoff spot don't make him look altogether innocent either.
The fact that the GM and coach are scapegoating jackasses who always look to deflect blame is much more telling. If you really think you perceive some clear show of intent, you're a frigging mindreader. I've been slagging Clint off all year for his poor attitude, and I won't dispute that the referee made a legitimate decision on the red card on a quick judgment call, but the idea of intent on that play is very far from cut and dried.
If someone takes a shot on goal and a defender, without thinking, moves his hand to block the shot, you could say that he didn't intend to handle the ball. It would still be a deliberate handling of the ball. You can make the same arguement for Clint, that he wasn't thinking and didn't mean to stomp on Alegria. He certainly "appeared" to have a "What did I just do?" look about him. (As opposed to Rasov, who stepped over to Heaps and then stomped on him, and didn't seem particularly remorseful). Having said all of that, it's still pretty obvious from the video clip that Mathis wasn't trying to right himself and it wasn't a continuation of motion (which was my original assertion). You don't need to be a mindreader to tell a deliberate stomp from a loss of balance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Mathis Red Card vs. the Razov Red Card I can't figure how Razov' action being worse than Mathis has any bearing on Mathis' punishment otherwise. Did you miss my OBL-Manson analogy? How in hell can you say Mathis should hav gotten a yellow just because what he did wasn't as bad as what Razov did? Your Clint-love is causing the blood to flow from your brain to your...nevermind. Seriously...judge Mathis' actions by the LOTG, which dictate a red card. Period, full stop. If Razov had only gotten a yellow, then you bringing up Mathis would make sense. He didn't and you don't.