The Liverpool team building process

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Grinners89, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i repped his post. i'm sure he'll get 5 or 6 reps from that post, not that he deserves them. there were lots of errors -- not factual, just typos and crud. :)
     
  2. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    You have to excuse me, English is my second language...I just can't read or write in my 1st language.
     
  3. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    nothing surprises me anymore.

    when i go to a particular school to substitute teach, i tell the kids that i'm from a different planet. i think some of them believe me.
     
  4. Kawklee

    Kawklee Mark

    Oct 30, 2008
    Miami
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ********ing brilliant
     
  5. ilferrari

    ilferrari New Member

    Oct 5, 2004
    Liverpool Squad

    Liverpool are going nowhere if they rely on second-rate forwards like Carroll, Kuyt, Henderson etc. They are so blunt in attack. Dalglish is getting the best out of them but he needs to wake up and stop insisting that this squad is good enough to be the best
     
  6. blanconi

    blanconi Member+

    Aug 25, 2008
    The owners better buy and buy big this summer if this club is going to move forward.
     
  7. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I think you'll be disappointed this summer if that is your expectation. We're never going to be successful by buying big as Citeh and Chelsea in the UK as well as Madrid/Barca/Malaga/PSG/Anzhi on the continent can all outbid us. At best we'll get the cast-offs that those teams deem not good enough. Progression will come through coaching, greater team unity/compatibility and consistency.

    I think we'll bring in one big signing this summer to replace Maxi providing we get rid of Cole and Aquilani and maybe another expensive forward if Kuyt moves on, as well as a few players in the Coates mould to strengthen the squad.

    Considering we've been without either Lucas/Gerrard all season, the Suarez hoopla and our frankly bizarre home form we're doing fine. At least one of these three factors will be gone next season.
     
  8. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Re: Liverpool Squad

    Thank you for your kind and astute comments. I see it all now!

    And who are you again?
     
  9. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Re: Liverpool Squad

    I see that Rodriguez has been re-called to the national team. I think we could do worse than him (and certainly better than Downing) on one of the flanks methinks.
     
  10. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: Liverpool Squad

    That's great news for Maxi!

    With their squad, I assume we'll see something like this...


    Higuain
    Sosa - Messi
    Rojo - Masch - Gago - Zabaleta
    Garay - D.Diaz - Campagnaro
    Romero

    ...but I could see Maxi starting if they go 1-4-4-1-1. Hopefully he retains his place.


    Higuain
    Messi
    Di Maria - Masch - Gago - Maxi
    Rojo - Garay - D.Diaz - Zabaleta
    Romero
     
  11. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Re: Liverpool Squad

    It's good to see that even if he can't get a regular place (shit, any place) with us, that he's still rated for his international side.
     
  12. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Going back to my Juventus-Liverpool comparison, here are some more similarities.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/soccer/02/11/digby.juventus/index.html?sct=sc_bf5_a2

     
  13. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good comparison, Grinners. Liverpool has lacked any real creativity for 2+ seasons now.
     
  14. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    too bad Picasso is too old to play football, eh wot...
     
  15. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Downing attempted 20 crosses vs Cardiff. I really hope we use a new strategy next season that contains even slightly more variation.
     
  16. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It's frustrating-- even when there is nobody in the box, and a pass or cutback (see the Andy Carroll goal against Brighton) is a better option, he keeps crossing the ball. Almost as if he feels that is the be and end all of his duties in the team.
     
  17. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I guess it's at least better than what he does on the right flank. :rolleyes:
     
  18. never walk alone TPK

    Sep 27, 2004
    nairobi, kenya
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Kenya
    There is no denying that this is not the best or ideal team that the fans, the coaching staff and the management desired. We cannot compete financially with the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, United and the better team in Manchester. However we need to start competing on the field consistently.
    We have showed great character and attitude against the so called top teams however our inability to perform at satisfactory levels consistently has been our downfall. As far as I can remember the wins this season have not been vintage Liverpool, neither have their been lucky escapes. Luck may play a big factor in the number of times we have hit the post, refereeing decisions, injuries and suspensions however for all these to be secondary factors in our team we need consistency over an entire season rather then patches.
    I must say that although I am not too pleased with the progress of the new signings in Henderson, Downing, Adam and Carroll I must emphasise the term progress. For some the progress has been slow, stagnant, and poor. For others it has been a gradual positive progress. We all know that fans and coaches gauge progress in different ways, I for one will say Carroll and Adam have progressed while others might say Henderson has shown more progress.
    There is no denying that "Moneyball" has been used for some of our purchases but at the end of the day, it also depends on the new player and the coaching he gets. The attitude, hardwork and effort need to be seen from the time the player sets foot in Melwood to the time he goes to bed. These are things that are also emotionally related.
    If I were to provide my opinion on Carroll, Adam , Downing and Henderson, I will say "Work needs to be done". Lets be honest Dalglish and Clarke have picked the trio sometimes overlooking the likes of Kuyt, Rodriguez, Shelvey and Spearing.
    I am not bashing the new signings but in the Cardiff final I certainly would have liked to see Rodriguez and Kuyt on the pitch from the start.
    I personally do not like the term transition, but we are a team in transition. With consistency and to a certain extent luck we will be a finished product sooner then later.
     
  19. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm beginning to wonder if Carroll is part of the re-building process, and which part?
     
  20. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    If we're building around the below, I'm not sure how Downing, Adam or Carroll fit. They just don't play the same football as the players below.

    [​IMG]

    I'm also still worried by Enrique, because I can't see him improving, and Kenny has used him in the wrong role.

    If anything, with Enrique's pace and defensive qualities, we should be playing Enrique as a sort-of left-sided central defender in a similar role to Abidal (Barca), where he joins attacks very late, and only if width is needed. This would get more out of Johnson going forward and would allow Gerrard to get forward, leaving us with at worst, Lucas-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique behind the ball...and I'd back those 4 to stop almost any counter-attack.

    And Raheem Sterling. That kid. In my opinion, in the above team, he would be perfect for the left-wing role. Without the ball, position himself high-and-wide, on the sideline without the ball (as he does with the reserves), not getting too involved in our build-up, giving him the chance to get in as many 1 vs 1 with his full-back. Do it Kenny.
     
  21. ryered

    ryered Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    Hill Country
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The best thing we could do for ourselves and for Carroll is to really, truly forget what we paid for him. It wasn't his doing and there were a lot of "externalities" or call them what you will that resulted in the decision to agree that fee. Then, freed of the "franchise player" weight, we can build a system that fits LFC, not Andy Carroll. We might have had a rationale for building a team around a Fernando Torres in his pomp, but there is no rationale whatsoever for building anything around Carroll at this point. Good young player, but hardly showing even glimpses of "world class #9" and frankly unlikely to do so. Let's use him as a CF in the best tactical system we can come up with and evaluate him accordingly.

    Personally, I don't see him as our future #9 but I'm happy with us giving him a fair chance... For a reasonable period of time.
     
  22. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Comparison with our 2004-05 season.

    With this team...
    number of total league starts in brackets (max 27)

    Suarez(20)
    Downing(21) - Henderson(22) - Kuyt(17)
    Adam(26) - Lucas(12)
    Enrique(26) - Agger(20) - Skrtel(24) - Johnson(17)
    Reina(27)​

    + multiple starts from:
    Carroll(14), Carragher(11), Bellamy(9), Kelly(8), Spearing(8), Gerrard(6), Maxi(5), Coates(2)


    2011/12 (after 27 games)
    W: 10
    D: 9
    L: 8
    Pts: 39
    Goals for: 30
    Goals against: 26


    And with this team...

    Baros(22)
    Riise(34) - Gerrard(28) - L.Garcia(26)
    Hamman(23) - Alonso(20)
    Traore(18) - Hyypia(32) - Carragher(36) - Finnan(29)
    Dudek(26)​

    + multiple starts from:
    Kewell(15), Josemi(13), Morientes(12), Warnock(11), Pellegrino(11), Cisse(10), Biscan(8), Nunez(8), Kirkland(8), Sinama Pongolle(6), Mellor(6), Diao(4), Carson(4), J.Welsh(2), Le Tallec(2), Smicer(2)

    2004/05 - after 27 games
    W: 13
    D: 4
    L: 10
    Pts: 43
    Goals for: 41
    Goals against: 29

    2004/05 - after 38 games
    W: 17
    D: 7
    L: 14
    Pts: 58
    Goals for: 52
    Goals against: 41


    Please help me figure out what the fuck are we building to?

    To match what we did in the 2004/05 season, we would need at least 19 points from our last 11 matches, despite us getting only 10 points from our previous 11 matches.
     
  23. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Look at the prior form?

    In 2004/05 we were in the Champions League having finished the previous two seasons 4th and 5th as opposed to no Champions League football and finishing 6th and 7th in the two previous seasons. Man Cities main priorities were staying up, after only recently being promoted and having no multi-billionaire owners and Spurs were an average team changing managers each season(which is what some of you want us to become).

    This is Kennys first full season in charge and in that time he's won us a trophy and most of you ungrateful ********ers don't give a shit as its all about the champions league. If you cant give Dalglish more than a season than you dont deserve to support this club.

    Grinners mate you've called Kenny neglectful in his management sned your CV to any professional club before slamming the manager after winning 6-1 or lifting the league cup.

    Theres having a critical opinion and then there is being a condescending little prick who is happy with nothing.
     
  24. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i'm all out of rep :p :eek:
     
  25. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Covered.

    Especially agree with this:

    If you cant give Dalglish more than a season than you dont deserve to support this club.

    We are a team in transition. Kenny hasn't been perfect by any stretch but we (collectively, myself included) should be reasonable given where we've come from and where we're going.

    For where we sit in the table today my adjusted expectations for the season:
    Win the FA Cup.
    Finish in the top 6.
    End the year strong, playing well, with momentum yielding optimism.
    Make moves this summer to shore up holes and set this team up for a strong run in Europe next season.

    Do those things and I'll feel we've making progress and are on the right track under Kenny.
     

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