The Laws of the Game: Proposed Changes & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by deejay, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I'm down with a 4th sub. Can't really think of a down side to it unless teams use it to bring in extra defenders. :p
     
  2. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #27 SJJ, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
    USA submits discussion topic for "Stopping the clock." This will be discussed but no decision will be made.

    article: http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organisation/ifab/media/news/newsid=2519504/

    PDF: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/ifab/02/51/94/90/ifab_2015agm_agenda_neutral.pdf

    You would think that US teams see a lot of "time wasting" by opponents, so they would want this.

    Actual "Items for decision" are to allow a fourth substitution in extra time, allowing players to return to the field only in "grassroots / recreational" levels, two about Players' Equipment (Electronic performance and tracking systems; Display of messages of any kind), and the "triple punishment" of sending-off offences.

    The other "Items for Discussion" (no formal decision to be made) are Handling the ball, Video replay, and Sin bins
     
  3. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    The biggest issue, as discussed in my earlier post on this thread (#13), is how high-stakes PK decisions have become.

    Something has to be done to give the referee a third option for fouls inside the box besides PK/not-PK...defenders get away with bloody murder on set pieces because they know very few refs will dare to call a PK on them for shirt-tugging, pulling, and holding.
     
  4. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    I agree about the problem, if called correctly, Algeria and Costa Rica may have defeated Germany and Holland. Not sure about the solution. I would prefer a couple more off the field officials tasked with calling those type of fouls in the box and allowed to "overrule" an out of position center ref when he misses a PK call in either direction.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They should just instruct refs to call the damn PK. Defenders will figure things out within 2 months.
     
  6. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
  7. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Like the 4th sub idea.
     
  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Indeed.

    So does the CONMEBOL apparently. They wanted to implement it in the Copa America (as SJJ posted earlier) but FIFA quickly denied them of that novel idea.
     
  9. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    The problem is that there is no clear definition of what is or is not a PK, any more than there is clarity on what is or is not a foul. Therefore, my thinking is to try to reduce the stakes by reducing the number situations in which a ref has to make such a huge decision.

    For example, here are some possible ideas:

    1) Shrink the size of the penalty box
    2) Give refs the option to award a free kick instead of a PK
    3) Move the penalty spot back further, so that the percentage of converted PK's drop. PK decisions would not be so high-stakes if the conversion rate was lower.
     
    Q*bert Jones III repped this.
  10. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I think that is part of the beauty and reality tv like theater of soccer. You do not know what a penalty is until the Ref says it is a penalty. It is one of those discretion calls that I just can't see being changed.
    I have heard mention maybe a Ref should be upstairs looking at video to see if the player is diving or not but even then, that would take away from the human element too much.

    Maybe if they have a challenge system like the NFL it could work.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not true.
     
  12. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    I would like to see something done about team on team persistent infringement. As things stand now, PI can only be called against a player for multiple fouls or IIRC against a team (YC on a player) for persistent fouling of a specific player on the other team. Nothing prevents the team on team hack fests that complete shut down the opposition. Recent examples (and please lets not argue about these teams, these are just the ones that stuck in my mind) Holland (WC)and Brazil (friendly) recently committing 30 plus fouls against Chile in a 90 minute game. You had a vibrant attacking team rarely able to get within 30 yards because of the constant fouling further up in midfield. You also had this done against a fairly short team who was not threat in the air against Brazil or Holland. A couple of yellows were given, but that obviously was not enough to deter the constant fouling tactic.

    I propose that once a team reaches a specific # of fouls (# TBD, it would need analysis and be a number only reached by a team really engaging in too many fouls) in a game, that team loses a player for the remainder of that game. They could lose either the player that commits that last foul or player who has committed the most fouls up to that point. This also TBD. This would not count as a red, and whichever player is sent off may play the next game. The fourth or even a fifth official would keep track instead of the center ref, to prevent that possible last straw foul from affecting how he calls the game. Game would be more fair by reducing this heinous tactic and be much more enjoyable to watch. How many of us enjoy watching a team hack their way to victory? All other rules for YCs and PI etc. would stay the same.
     
  13. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Teams like Italy, Uruguay and Romania would never end a match with 11 on the field.

    :p
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    There are 3 changes that I like to see:

    1) Infractions in the box. I would allow referees to call indirect free kicks for infractions in the box that don't deny a clear goal scoring chance, allowing a lot of infractions that aren't called right now to be called and not having a situation where every infraction (even a marginal one) would result in a penalty. Needless to say, infractions that deny a clear goal scoring chance would still result in a penalty.

    2) Orange Cards. I would give referees the option to show players an "Orange card", which would be card that would result in a temporary ejection (say 10 minute ejection). This would be an intermediate card for situations where a red card would be too harsh and a yellow card too lenient or for double yellow card situations which do not warrant a complete ejection.

    3) Goalie Exemption from 3 Substitute Limit. I do not believe there should be any limit on substituting a goalie and a team should be free to substitute its goalie even if they have otherwise used their 3 subs.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS had a rule like that. It didn't work because a team could put a field player in at GK, put the GK in the field, then switch them at a dead ball. IIRC (and I may not recall correctly, because it was over 10 years ago) it's not possible to write a rule that closes this loophole.

     
  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It would become open season for divers, looking to gain another advantage by faking fouls as often as they can.
     
  17. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    So every penalty would be a red card then? I don't know about this one. It would only increase the amount of clutching and grabbing we see in the box.

    Two minor changes I'd like to see:

    1) I would like to see the penalty areas have rounded corners instead of square edges. I mean those corners are soooo far from the goal-mouth area that awarding a penalty for a foul in that part of the field just does not fit the crime. Also players tend to dive in this part of the field because they know they're not in a dangerous scoring area, yet the punishment for a foul in that area is severe!

    2) Stoppage-time resulting from injuries, substitutions, etc., should result in the clock actually being stopped. The half and match will end upon the first occasion that there isn't a dangerous attacking play on-going after the 45:00 and 90:00 minute marks, respectively.
     
  18. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll agree with the rounded penalty areas. The corner is 25.46 yards from the goal post. A bit too far for the modern game.

    BTW, last week's Fifa Weekly provides a history of the actual field. (Most freakish is the original goal area, which was two semi-circles that met at a midpoint. Also shows several pictures of fields that are, well, poorly-lined.)

    Stopping the clock was apparently talked about. See my post #27 above.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    This already exists although doesn't come into play much. If there is an unintentional dangerous play (high kick), it's supposed to be indirect free kick. Actually I remember unintentional hand ball used to be indirect free kicks in the box back in the day. I am not sure if there has been a directive to treat such occasions differently.

    Giving indirect free kicks for non-direct goal scoring chances in the box (1) leaves it at the refs discretion to determine what's a direct goal scoring opportunity creating more chance of controversy and "outside" influence and (2) gives the defending team another reason to foul inside the box without a big enough repercussion.

    Again creates a situation where the ref needs to make a judgement call. You don't specify what would constitute an orange card. It would probably be tough to define it. Red and yellow cards are already judgement calls to a certain extent, this would only complicate things IMO.

    I agree with this. Although the situation it takes care of is a pretty rare one and the impact seems to be pretty minimal.
     
  20. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You could say that 4th sub has to be a GK for a GK. Meaning the player coming in has to be listed as a GK in the roster.
     
  21. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Another riot was almost started in the Copa Libertadores last night in the match between Racing and Wanderers because of FIFA's bizarre stubbornness not to introduce a clock which stops during delays. In this particular match there were 2 injuries/delays within the 3 minutes of stoppage time, yet true to form the referee blows the final whistle at exactly 93:00. :cautious:

    Needless to say the manager and a few players of the team that lost by 1 goal lost their cool and, rightfully so, got right into the ref's face at the final whistle. All this could be so easily avoided....
     
  22. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    have to disagree with you here. by your own admission FIFA is being stubborn so how does near assaulting a ref address this. never any excuse for ref abuse.

    now, if you said a FIFA exec like I dunno Sepp was there and got bum rushed then yeah, I will conveniently support a full on assault, just this once!
     
  23. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that referees don't want to give "extra extra" time in any case; short of showing a yellow card for "stalling even more;" then they would add more time. Not saying that is the right thing, either, but I think that is their rational.
     
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
  25. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

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