Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bungadiri, Dec 28, 2011.
The more I see of Klinsmann, the more I am convinced he does not know what he is doing and that he is possibly a very good con artist. He's played Gulati like a fiddle.
I actually tried to find the video from that same episode of Adam ripping open the Froot Loops box ("everywhere!") after watching Donnie Moore.
Klinsmann is a representative from Dobis PR, hoping to clean up the S'wallow Valley Mall United States national team.
Unfortunately, it's not really his specialty.
Avoid eye contact ... avoid eye contact ...
Read through all the post game quotes, and again what is concerning is that JK seems to harp on players simply not executing in their roles, instead of acknowledging that he's picking the wrong players for those roles.
Having that lead maybe gave players the feeling they can play the complicated way. I told them at halftime this is not the way it works. You’ve got to keep things simple on the field. Every time we played simple passing and combined, we created chances. In between those moments we just made things far too complicated.
The key to that game was really that we made things far too complicated in the first half. We allowed them to come back into the game. Instead of keeping the ball and moving it around simply, we gave them opportunities and opportunities to get free kicks and they scored off of a free kick in the first half and the second half
“We have a big enough roster to discuss certain things within the coaching staff and if we’re going to make changes, we will make changes. That’s not the point. Overall we have to give Jamaica a compliment at how they rose to the occasion. They were hungry and so determined. They wanted it so badly. They were very physical and we had problems with that. There is a lot to take from the game even if the result for us is a negative one.”
If you ask me, playing three DMids, Edu and Jones in advanced positions, is always going to make the passing game more complicated, as none excel in those areas in advanced positions. It seems he just doesn't realize he's asking players to do things they've never had success with. Then after they fail, I get the impression he's acting like Edu/Jones can have success in the roles he put them in, they just didn't do a good enough job in his mind. He's basically telling us when playing three DMids, they should be better in possession, should link the attack, should complete passes in advanced positions and judging by his pregame quotes where he wanted to dominate possession, he fully expected playing three DMids would accomplish that, controlling possession. Has it crossed his mind that to hold possession, link up and create opportunities he needs advanced players in advanced positions, rather than playing DMids in advanced positions and acting like the players themselves complicated things? JK complicated everything with his roster selection and playing guys out of position, then asking them to do things they've never been successful at. The players themselves didn't complicate anything.
The fact he went into the game planning on dominating possession, threw three DMids out there, and then is surprised afterwards that they couldn't keep possession is worrying. Extremely. More than the result. He actually thought when game planning to control possession, that these three DMids would accomplish that. That is a horrible misvaluation of those three who he's spent a lot of time around, and the rest of our player pool.
Please, please, please, someone come here and say that Klinsmann knows what he is doing. Where are you hiding. Come tell me how the Italy and Mexico wins, and how we took it to Brazil had us turning the corner...smack dab into a wall.
What difference would it make if someone did? Nobody here really knows if he knows what he's doing or doesn't. Some days it looks like what he's doing is working, and some days it looks bad. One thing I do know is that he knows more about soccer than anyone on BS, so I don't pay much attention to the histrionics of internet forum posters.
The results are what matters, and he's not going to be fired if the USA qualify. Certainly calling for his head after one year seems a bit kneejerk.
Certainly he has a wealth of experience and knowledge, but that is not always translatable to coaching.
Also, this: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060519
"I'm becoming more and more convinced that every professional sports team needs to hire a Vice President of Common Sense, someone who cracks the inner circle of the decision-making process along with the GM, assistant GM, head scout, head coach, owner and whomever else. One catch: the VP of CS doesn't attend meetings, scout prospects, watch any film or listen to any inside information or opinions; he lives the life of a common fan. They just bring him in when they're ready to make a big decision, lay everything out and wait for his unbiased reaction."
JK reminds me of Chauncey Gardner...in the spring there will be growth...so you know Krilov...etc etc.
all said with that odd loosey-goosey smile of his
Oh, no question about it. Look at Magic, Kareem and Isaiah Thomas. Michael Jordan had the good sense not to even try, but was bad enough as a GM/owner.
Still, I don't see how having no or comparatively little first-hand knowledge or experience (i.e. internet posters) gives a person any kind of advantage. I think the lack of any accountability and the ability to sway whichever way the wind is blowing leads some fans to imagine that they are experts when they really aren't. Obviously they are going to be right some of the time, but so is the proverbial broken clock.
I'm no expert, but there are some posters on BS who are extremely experienced and knowledgable.
Hey buddy, I trademarked that back last winter.
Did you. Just goes to show that all addled minds think alike.
And being American soccer "experts," they are like some Saudi Arabian guy who's been really involved in Saudi Arabian basketball, at some level, for many years. The dude knows his basketball.
I would bet good money that there are more than a few people who post on these boards that have their A coaching license, just like JK. The difference being, those posters actually had to earn it. JK had one handed to him because of his playing career.
No, that would be against the law.
Not copyright law, the Geneva Convention.
Wonder where the Buddha statues will be set...
Look at his involvement with TFC.. Klinsmann was hired to help re-build TFC.. He put in place two inexperienced coaches with competing philosophies and a yr and a bit later they open 0-9. There too he was a charmer.
Who are they. We could check their posts and see how smart they are. I can tell you such soccer luminaries as england66 and old guy dc proved to be pretty freaking wrong now and again. Who knows if Jurgen is going to prove to be the right guy or a huge disaster. But the criticism of his style is a criticism we saw of arena Sampson and Bradley and Nora which either tells you something about us soccer, bs posters or both.
That would be Bora, yes? As for criticism of style of play, isn't that an obvious facet of the game for which any manager will have to face scrutiny and criticism? Since "the shot heard round the world" rose us out of the mire and into the 1990 WC we have had 6 USMNT managers [Gansler, Bora Milutinovic, Sampson, Arena, Bradley, Klinsmann]. Each has had an influence on how the team stylistically plays the game, and each has had his share of fierce [and sometimes warranted] criticism. The internet may have accentuated this, but it did not create this. On BS each manager has drawn out his own distinct set of critics, and those who actually set out arguments tend to have something intelligent to offer that manager and that version of the USMNT. There is always some overlap, but anyone who has followed these boards since at least the mid-2000's [as I have] will know that very different folk were the bane of end-stage Arena versus the bane of Bradley or the Bane of Klinsmann or [in retrospect] the bane of Sampson or Bora. Old Guy and England 66 were/are not always right, but then who is? They did/do have much insight and experience to offer, and were/are thoughtful s to what lies behind that insight. They offered much more, in short, than mere predictions as to what might happen...they offered understanding in depth. Blind prognostication can land on Luck, but is useless nevertheless. Informed guessing, even if it does not hit the event, adds much.
There is a wealth of sober, intelligent insight into the sport on these boards, and many of us have grown up playing the game [whether overseas, as I did, or here in the States, as perhaps you did] as part of our very sense of life. We know the game, and understand its possibilities across the world, to different degrees, but it is often to a degree that we have much that is meaningful to note as to the players, and the leaders, of professional and international football. Of course criticism of style will be a common element of BS posters' discussion on the USMNT. Think about it.
These boards are much worse without Oldguyfc.
MNT is much worse with Klinsmann.
Think about what? I was responding to a specific poster's specific critique of Klinsman and his suggestion that there are guys here with "A" licenses who "earned" them - unlike Klinsman who, I dunno, inherited his from a rich uncle?
I have been around these boards a long time, and around soccer a long time. I am under no illusion that Klinsman (or any coach) can take a team and make it is something it is not for more than a few games, or a season at the most. So when the criticism of the US style of play, personnel and results remains somewhat consistent across 2 decades, one does have to think that perhaps it trancends the guy in the track suit, that's all I'm point out. GVP's critique is overwrought and urealistic. Does not mean there is not some truth in it as well, but the idea that the Earthquakes, who have never had to play a WC qualifier in Jamaica or Costa Rica would have done better than this team, or that it is the ugliest soccer that we've played in 20 years is just flat out silliness.
That's all I'm saying. The chicken little crowd will always be around, but the reality of the level of soccer that the USMNT consistently plays is often very different from the level they should play in the BS fan's mind.
For sure. But the dude was epically wrong (and rather nasty) about Mike Bradley, despite his clear understanding of the game and obvious intelligence.
MNT is much worse than what? The Iran game? The two Ghana games?
Is the German Williams fixation any less comprehensible than the Ritchie Williams fixation? Anyone remember that line-up Arean took to Sasparilla when we had a few injuries.
anyway - I've made my point. I think if there was a clear let down from Jurgen in the Jamaica game was the amount of desire of the two teams. Jamaica simply looked like there were not going to lose that game if it was the end of their career. I do not think Jurgen managed to get that sense of intensity into the US team. That was certainly a disappointment to me.