The Joe Biden Presidency II : He's too old...or something like that!

I reserve the right to remain unconvinced. Kids have options, in California we have a wonderful Community College system which is still relatively inexpensive (it was free when I started and during my time there, they implemented a $50/semester tuition which we thought was outrageous) and widely accessible. Start there. That's what I did. Get a couple of years knocked out and then go to a more expensive four-year school for your remaining couple of years. I also worked as an undergraduate, so I didn't have to borrow heavily. By the time I went to graduate school I was also working full time, so I didn't have to max out on borrowing.

Schools are more expensive today, I'm sure, but have things really changed that much? We knew back then that it would be a long commitment (paying it back), and I was well aware of the agreement I was entering into.

I hear your point about this not being an effort to help the kids out, but I'm not convinced. I can see the potential for larger issues with kids defaulting at a greater rate but is that in fact happening? And maybe the solution is to tighten up lending criteria.

Or maybe I've become grumpy old stay off my lawn guy.

 

I used my student loan money semi-irresponsibly although I suppose the case could be made that I really needed that Yamaha 750 motorcycle and sweet Yamaha sound system.

Again, the solution can't be setting young people up for failure by giving them loans they won't be able to pay back. And it just seems ridiculous to me that people take on debt with their eyes wide open, knowing full well they're on the hook for paying it back, and then go whoa, wait a minute, this obligation I just signed up for and agreed to, unfair and I shouldn't have to pay it back!

 

I guess some 17/18-year-olds didn’t have the foresight you did. Or maybe you had a more responsible financial aid counselor who adequately explained the potential of continuing to pay interest on your student loan long after the principal is paid off. Considering financial aid departments have a strong incentive to help enable high student enrollment in the college that pays them it makes sense that some might downplay the potential long term consequences.

 

She was a gift. I'd never finished high school and left Georgia (just days after my 17th birthday) for boot camp in Orlando. Fast forward a few years, I'm in Santa Barbara, penniless, trying to clean up my act and get my shit together. She was one of those critical people along the way whose help I'm eternally grateful for. She took some of the ($$$) pressure off so I could focus on getting
some decent grades.

We were on the hook then for books, but like I said, tuition was free to begin with. Pell grant and student loan money went for other expenses.

So, it was a different time, no doubt.

 

The main problem is the exponential rise in administrative costs in college. Unless that is fixed, everything else is a bandaid.

 

well, I suppose if the kids are truly being misled by financial aid people and screwed over by lending institutions...then yeah, maybe they deserve some debt relief.

maybe things have changed more than I thought over the past 40 years.

 

It is vastly different. When I was an undergrad at Wyoming tuition was about $800 a year. That will possibly buy your books for one semester now.

Based on tuition + living expenses, it is cheaper to attend a top 1% university in New Zealand as an international student than it is to attend the U of Washington as an in-state resident. The system is completely broken.

 

Also the costs of keeping up to date with technology is expensive, including what you need to pay people qualified to maintain it.

 

Well, I feel like you're well qualified to know. I ended up at UC Santa Cruz, and then went to SJ State...I expect tuition has skyrocketed at those schools too.

I'm stuck on the junior college option though, why not do a couple of years at the local community college and then transfer to a University of Washington, or wherever, and save some money that way?

 

That is definitely a better option, but there is still a stigma attached to going to community college instead of getting the "full college experience". Students who don't get hung up on the 4 years at uni situation can save a fair amount of money - the local one here is about $5,000 a year for tuition. Books are a real killer, however. For a Biology class you might be paying $300 for one book.

 

It is my understanding that it is not loans "just signed up for" that are being forgiven, but rather loans that have demonstrated weakness to the point of default.

IOW if you drop out and get a million a year job right away, no one's on the forgiveness train for you. If you've been out ten years and shown no signs of being able to pay the full installments in under 25 more years, then maybe yes, let's get you started on adult life if at all possible.

 

I really can't say, but based on what I just told you about the financial concerns POCs have with tuition, your privilege is showing to even phrase the question.

 

Maybe, I don't pretend the playing field is level for everyone.

 

@Auriaprottu - Just to be clear, by "maybe" I mean you'd have to clarify how that sounds like privilege to you.

And I don't doubt that privilege exists, or that POC have it harder.

 

It's not just POC's either. There is structural poverty that's designed into western capitalism to force people to continue working when they shouldn't. It's not dissimilar to the old idea of indentured servitude...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude

More recently... he's right to say that, given a choice, people shouldn't enter into debts unnecessarily but when it becomes a necessity to have a college degree to have anything other than a menial, low-paid job the supposed 'choice' is, in fact, NO choice.

 

Given that administration is in charge of finances, it won’t be fixed.

 

A thing that I'd tell my younger self and will tell my children is to do the gen eds at a community college if they can and that there's no shame to it. I'm currently at a CC learning computer courses and plan on getting an associate's degree in computer science. I already have a bachelor's, and considered going back but encountered some things that made me pause and consider time and money.

Although what I liked about the gen eds at a 4 year was I met people I don't think I would've met otherwise. Once you get into your major you see the same people and maybe some random people.

As for books, they were killer then. It says a lot that a family friend of mine who was a professor at my alma mater told me to go to another bookstore and spend there. Doesn't help that so many of the changes are usually cosmetic.

 

I think you could make that same argument about college in general. I'm not so sure a college education is such a great investment anymore, or that it's the path to a bright future and a promising career, that it once was.

I get the impression more and more kids are opting out.

Even here, in the great state of California, I think that's right about guaranteed admission (to a UC school), but you still have to have the GPA, I'm sure.

 

I'm old and probably drawing too much from the experience of my youth. I remember it being something you didn't enter into lightly (40 years ago!), the risks were always present, and paying it off was a part of building a history of credit worthiness that would become important as you move along and want to buy a car, or a house.

You could defer payment until you were all done with your studies (probably still the case) but then you knew you'd have to start making those payments and you did it because you took the money, spent it and agreed to pay it back. Same principle with any borrowing arrangement.

I think they're saying "this is huge debt, can you help me out by erasing my debt even though I took the money with full knowledge of the risks and spent it all"...which is inconsistent with how borrowing works.

 

I remember hearing horror stories about debt collectors tracking you down, coming to your house or your workplace, hounding you endlessly, if you tried to wriggle out of your obligation. Not to mention your credit rating would be in tatters. My sisters experience.