The Jermaine Pennant question

Arsenal doesn't need an infusion of youth at this point in the campaign. This is when they need the experience. The pressure is immense and you need guys out there who can play through that. If it was earlier in the season, it might be worth looking into, but not right now, when you need the players you've gotten to this point with to really band together.

As for creativity, I think there are enough of those players on the pitch right now. Between Bergkamp, Henry, Wiltord, Pires, and Ljunberg, you have some of the most creative players on the planet. Arsenal also seems to have the most problems when they try and be too creative instead of just attacking. They seek the beautiful goal and, as a result, don't score as many as they should. Pennant strikes me as that kind of player and, quite frankly, they need more players like Ray Parlour and Patrick Vieira right now, guys who can control the game and keep the opponent from mounting any sort of attack.

 

Well, he didn't really say he deserves to start, just that based on his form AW should "start considering" him.

I agree with him. If he's in a scoring streak he should be considered because goal differential is so important in this title race.

 

Right, because Jermaine has proven that he can do it against senior-level Premiereship squads, not just reserve teams or U-21s...oh, wait, no he hasn't. Never mind.

What Jermaine really needs to do is keep his big mouth shut and get a grip on reality. Who does he think he should replace in the team of 16? Which starting international midfielder does he think he, Jermaine Pennant, should replace, either in the starting lineup or on the bench? Jermaine doesn't say, although what he *does* say is that he's sure he can bring something to the squad.

Genius. Sheer genius.

You know what? I've had it with Pennant, and I'd like to take back my earlier suggestion that we sell some of our established midfielders in the off-season. If this is what we've got waiting for us in reserve, then let's hope Pires and the others stay with us until they're 40.

 

all these negative views bout jermaine pennant is astounding... this is a marvelous young talent that should be given the experience! Which will only help his cause with the club in the future.. remember when pennant played EARLY in the season vs west ham at upton park? i thought the kid was brilliant and deserved more opportunities.. this lad is a keeper fer sure.. sure he may of screwed up at the U-21 level, but that doesnt make him a bad seed at all... in due time, we will see a bigtime future for pennant IMO~~~

Phishy

 

I think next season Pennant will be starting. I think after this campaign, Arsene will start to look towards some younger talent, with Pennant obviously being the keystone. He's got too much skill to be left on the reserves or on the bench for another season

 

This is an interesting situation to be sure. Like many youth players at Arsenal, Pennant is clearly immensely talented, moreso than all but a very few. There is concern though he will go the way of many who've been dropped down the queue since Arsene Wenger came to Highbury. But the question is simple-Is there ONE Arsenal youth player who has been released or sold who has done nearly as well as Ashley Cole or any youth player Arsenal have chosen to hold onto to this point? What have Hughes, Bothroyd, Barrett, Lincoln, or Sidwell, to name a few done between them compared to Ashley Cole's success at the BEST club in England? Upson really doesn't count here-first off he's already in his mid-20's when we sold him AND has suffered TWO serious leg injuries. Otherwise, who knows? My point is, Arsene Wenger knows-and if Pennant got what it takes-we WILL see it-at ARSENAL...

 

I've always thought that Wenger's hand was forced with the Ashley Cole situation.

Wenger is notorious (in my opinion at least) for ignoring young players that have come through the youth system. I can literally think of only Cole coming up through the ranks in his time at Arsenal to establish himself in the first team and even then as I say his hand was forced.

With Winterburn years past his sell by date and Silvinho leaving so abruptly Wenger was forced into playing Cole. Now the rewards have been wonderful but if he hadn't been all but forced into giving him a starting role I wonder if Cole would still be languishing in the reserves or even worse starring for another team.

This has really been Wenger's one and only fault in his tenure as far as I'm concerned. Letting talented youngsters rot on the bench and in the reserves while he keeps buying Frenchmen (and the occasional Brazilian) some of whom work out spectacularly and some of whom are surely paid under the table by MUFC to sabotage our title bids.

 

Senor, baloney.

Like Martin pointed out, name one young player he's made a mistake on. Just one. I know a couple were doing fairly well at Crystal Palace, but that's a far cry from Arsenal, you know?

P.S. Where's your tag line?

 

Got to differ with you here. If Ashley was a mediocre stiff, then you could argue that Wenger was forced to just stick him in. But clearly Cole is not a stiff as he plays for the National team. Is Erikkson's hand forced too?

Do you honestly believe that we have someone in our system (reserves, youth) that is better than Wiltord, Pires or Gilberto? (Ok, Cygan hasn't worked out well, but I don't think a final judgement can be made on less than one full season).

Other fringe players in the starting squad - Edu and GvB really are world class talents. Due to injury or lack of playing time they haven't always been able to show it, but I'd be shocked, shocked!, if we had somebody better than them tucked away somewhere.

 

I think that for once in my life, I actually disagree with the Senor. Dan, as always, makes the crucial point. Who would he replace? I can't think of anybody I'd rather see in the mid than who we have. By the way, Dan, I think you should capitalize all pronouns referring to Jermaine from now on. He'd like that.

Vive le AFC!

OPArsenal

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[size=0.75]“OPArsenal, you rock!” – Farrell Fan, singing the praises of a punk kid from Vice City[/size]

 

I Like Chicago Fan's thinking. One of the things that separates us and ManUre from the pack is the ability to play for 95 minutes. It's definitely a sound strategy to be cherry picking a few late goals to beef up the old differential. Whether Pennant is the man for the job is another matter?

 

I think that anyone who has seen Pennant play has to agree that he has bags of talent. It's a question of utilising that talent well. I wouldn't say that Ljungberg or Pires should be dropped for him, but I do think that he's worth a place on the bench. He's a completely different type of player to any of the other midfielders we have. None of them are going to skin their full-back and put balls into the box. Or take on two or three players and stick the ball in the corner. He gives us a different option, a different look for the opposition to think about.

I am all for giving the youths at Arsenal a chance. I do think that Wenger doesn't give the young players a fair crack at first team football. He'd rather play older players out of position (Lauren) or bring in more experienced, but inferior players (Cygan) than give the home grown talent a chance.

 

I can't believe you're being critical of the guy because he's anxious to get some first team football. With Arsene around, Arsenal might as well get rid of all their youth squads, because he obviously doesn't have any faith in the young players. Pennant will probably leave and become a star at another club, while Arsenal will end up spending money to get someone to play his position. I think Arsene is great too, but he's not perfect.

 

I agree, Arsene isn't perfect. Is anyone?

In answer to your comments:

-I'm not critical of Pennant only because of his latest comments (which came after a reserve match against Sp*rs - like that proves anything). I'm critical because that comment caps off a season of immature behavior. Like getting kicked off England's U-21 team, hanging out with the injured Ashely Cole at a bar the night before a match, and screwing around on the sub's bench during a match he should have been playing close attention to. Just wondering - why haven't we heard Aliadiere bitch and moan? Or Stuart Taylor?

-Nicolas Anelka. Ashely Cole. Kolo Toure. Stuart Taylor. All young players Wenger has given a chance to. He tried to give Matthew Upson every chance imaginable, but the guy kept getting injured. Same with Jeffers.

-You think Pennant will leave and become a star at another club? Like who? Name me all the young players during Wenger's reign who have left the club and starred somewhere else. You can't, because it hasn't happened.

Look, to me this whole thing's pretty simple. Wenger is under very intense pressure to win, even though he's at a club that, by all rights, should probably finish somewhere between 3rd and 7th on a consistent basis, not in the top 2 like they have for 6 straight seasons. He's obviously built a team that punches above its weight year in and year out, competing for the top of the league with virtually few of the resources that bigger clubs, like Manchester United and Liverpool, have at their disposal.

Wenger, above anything else, has proven to be a very shrewd talent evaluator. So when he decides that Jermaine Pennant isn't good enough to get into the squad of 16, then that's good enough for me. If he believes Pennant can help him win, then he'll put him in the squad. If not, then he won't. Simple.

I have a feeling that most of Pennant's fans here have barely ever seen him play. It cracks me up to read that Pennant "deserves" a chance in the first team. Based, I wonder, on what? His 40 minutes of first-team action this season? His performances for the reserves or the U-21s, which most of you have never actually seen? Meanwhile, senior internationals get ripped here without anyone blinking an eye. Guys who've captained their previous club teams, clubs that have played in the Champions League, are called worthless, and worse. I guess it's easier to praise the guy without the track record, since he hasn't screwed anything up yet.

And, finally, the Let's-Play-Pennant crowd never answers who he should play instead of. Still waiting to see which international you want to bench so this unproven, immature loudmouth can take a spot on the subs bench (where he'll probably just spend it screwing around and goofing off with Stuart Taylor when he should be watching the match and trying to learn something).

 

You're gonna give up on a young talent because he did some stupid things? He's 20 years old. Most 20 year olds are going to do stupid things. You didn't do anything stupid when you were 20? As for this stuff about Aliadiere and Taylor not bitching, Taylor has got first team time this year, and Aliadiere has been injured for most of the year. Even if they had both been healthy and hadn't got any time, I don't know if them not complaining about playing time is that good a thing. One could interperet that as them not being confident enough in their abilities to play in the first team yet.

I was actually referring more to players who had been in the Arsenal youth system for a while. Of the ones you listed, that only leaves Taylor and Cole. Taylor was forced into the side because of injuries, and I can't think of who else was available to play left back when Cole emerged. Oh yeah, I don't remember Upson getting a chance when he came back from a very successful loan spell and Cygan was looking horrible.

It hasn't happened yet, but that doesn't mean it can't or it won't. As for what club, who knows? Only time will tell, but I hope it's at Arsenal.

Ok, I'll admit I haven't seen him play that much, but from what I have seen and from all that I've read about him, in particular his loan spell at Watford, I would like to see him get a chance.

I would like to see him get a game over Ljungberg. He hasn't done that much since he came back from his injury, so it shouldn't hurt them too much even if he isn't very impressive.

 

I've seen Pennant play a few times over the last few years and was not wowwed by the wonderkind! He certainly didn't impact like Rooney! Arsenal's need for success makes it difficult for players like Pennant. It's a catch 22. Without a solid run in the first team you can't tell if a player's going to make the grade or not. Pires was horrible in his first season and Edu and Gilberto still only give of their best in spells. Cygan has actually looked half decent over the last couple of outings.

When you think, and it makes me shudder to do so, Wiltord is the most expensive player we've ever bought (can't remember if it was £12 or £14 million?). Dwinklers spot on, AW has worked miracles on the miserly budget of our canny directors. He has an eye for undervalued talent and for now Pennant needs to be satisfied with learning his craft around some of the best players and coaches in the game!

 

I think what we did at 20 (I'm still 20) is irrelevant to what a professional athlete does at 20. We're not the ones being showcased to fans with high expectations. He's young, yes, but maturity and professionalism go a long way in the sport, hell, any sport, as well as having talent and skill. Honestly, I only know about Pennant from what I read online and from you guys, but talk is cheap. He can make his case as to why he should start, but I don't think bitching will do that. If I could, I'd tell him to be patient, shut up, and when the time comes, show us what you're made of.

 

Winkler, you are bang on. Looking at the History of Arsenal in the EPL and the old First Division, prior to Wenger, Arsenal was good for winning the League Title once every decade (not bad really) and winning the odd FA Cup and other Cups. After Wenger, they've been consistently a contender for the EPL Title and have won 2 DOUBLES. That is amazing if you compare Arsenal's budget vs. Man U or Liverpool's budget. Merchandise United is just a Money Making Machine and they have to get results. They didn't win any trophies last year and what do they do? Spend the money to get some top players.

Arsenal does want to play with the big boys and they're building a big stadium to do so but it's a bitter pill to swallow - just the thought of Arsenal not playing in a small stadium like Highbury really brings home the reality that you have to spend some coin in Football today to get results (lack of depth at D so far seems to have killed us this year. However, to satisfy the fans taste for winning, it has to be done if Arsenal wants to keep up playing for League Championships and Europe. Would you rather be a Spurs fan or a Gooner? Enough said.

Man, I definitely want to go see a game at THOF before Arsenal moves to a New Home of Football.

 

He may be a 20 year old athlete, but he's still human. With all this talk about Arsenal's lack of financial resources in comparison to Manure and Liverpool, and the stadium delay, it is an even worse idea to give up on him now. I doubt he'll get any time this season now, but I hope he gets plenty of time next year.