It seems that the legal actions are not easing up and that is a good thing. A judge has banned Spain's ex-football chief Luis Rubiales from going within 200m of footballer Jenni Hermoso.
Sheila Garcia, Spain WNT and Atletico Madrid Stiker has had to issue the below statement. Its dramatically unfortunate that a person, who with her own reasoning arrives at a sensible position on a controversial topic and then has to publicly explain why she thinks they way she does. Does this societal trend of groupthink not concern people who are rational? Sheila Garcia and Dani Carvajal (who never wanted to comment on the issue but stated he believed in the basic human right of presumption of innocence) have shown a level of courage which is difficult to find in today's society. Hopefully public opinion will show support and appreciation for these principled and brave players. Who would have thought 10 years ago that the belief in the presumption of innocence, freedom of thought and freedom of expression would be enough to risk being cancelled or have your life changed forever. "After the criticism and opinions that have been made about me for the decision not to sign the statement that many colleagues have signed, I want to clarify, first of all, that I am a woman and I will always be on the side of defending the women and their rights and recognitions. I position myself on the side of Jenni and my teammates but I want to say how I feel that defending my colors, my country and wearing the national team's shirt is above the people who at all times govern, direct or manage the federation, FIFA or any other organism on which we depend. I understand that defending my rights, those of my colleagues and other women who may feel represented is not at odds with wearing or refusing to wear my flag, I firmly believe that they can be defended with the same force without having to deny my team. I want you to respect my feelings and the way in which I believe I should support my colleagues just as I respect and understand the way in which everyone wants to do so. All my support to Jenni and my colleagues"
@seat124 on post 156 yiu were warned about making personal attacks. On post 224, you littered it with personal attacks. Thread banned. Thread reopened.
RFEF is requesting a list of the people (Heads of the department and employees) that the players wants ousted and their reason for the request. 'La RFEF le ha pedido a las futbolistas que antes de las 00.00 horas de este domingo deberían enviar la lista de directores de departamento y empleados de la Federación señalados por el Caso Jennifer Hermoso y las razones por las cuales piden su salida. Además, se les exige que antes de que finalice ese plazo tienen que responder si aceptan ser seleccionadas o no.' The RFEF has requested that the football players send, before 00:00 hours this Sunday, the list of department heads and employees of the Federation identified in the Jennifer Hermoso Case, along with the reasons why they are requesting their departure. Furthermore, they are required to respond before the deadline whether they accept to be selected or not. https://as.com/futbol/seleccion/situacion-limite-en-la-roja-n/ RFEF needs to send the team list to be able to play in Nation League.
Spain to send a team without the 39 players to UEFA's NL. Will be interesting to see how a Spain C / U20 team do. https://as.com/futbol/femenino/lista-sin-las-39-n/ This was a bad PR move by the 39, IMHO; Marca and AS (Spanish sports newspaper) comment section is hardly a decent sample of the Spanish society; But the comment section shows people thinking the 39 were unreasonable and demanding too much.
So do I. I do hope they are able to transform the Federation into a place where they feel represented and have peace of mind. It's hard to imagine who wouldn't want this, particularly international fans. However, this discussion is more nuanced from the viewpoint of Spanish society—a context that isn't always captured by the international public. These Spanish players are challenging the federation, but to accomplish that, they need public support. The Federation has requested a list with names and reasons why a person should be removed from the Federation. This seems reasonable. If you go to any HR department, you are expected to articulate what is wrong, why the culture is toxic, and who is contributing to a toxic working environment. I'm afraid that by sending a very vague demand, they are open to valid criticism, which could be used to dismiss and invalidate their struggle for better working conditions.
Sometimes it is necessary for people to take a stand even if it hurts their ability to earn income in the future. Just remember what Charmaine Hooper and much of the Canadian Women's team did several years ago. Or go back further and look at the "women's rights" crusaders of the past and what they went through and are going through just to get near equality for women. While it is possibly/probably true that the women participating in the Spanish strike will harm their careers it is quite clear that some action is needed and this could well end up being the best action they could take. Particularly if the group Spain sends is very weak and flames out quite early and badly. But it also "could" backfire if Spain's "C" team does well. That is actually a real concern as Spain's style of play fits the club play of most of that "C" team so they may look a lot better than they actually are. Personally I hope the impact of this is positive for the players involved and for Spanish football and even for Spain and Europe as a whole. We will just have to wait and see, I guess. Apparently I have misjudged Spain a lot based on recent happenings in that country and I was going to make a European trip that originally did not include Spain but would now include it but my health has undergone a setback and the trip is off so I will just have to watch things unfold from afar. <sigh> BTW: I have been very impressed by the positive up-welling of support by the fans at club matches. It is very important for me to see such support and I must applaud Spain's people for getting behind these ladies.
Spain’s full squad list for their upcoming Nations League matches - 15 World Cup players - 21 players on this list signed the player statement released the other day demanding changes within the federation
Not sure if a deal was reached or RFEF is forcing the issue. ' Son 23 jugadoras las que representarán a España en este primer reto tras ganar el Mundial. Y sí, han sido llamadas 20 de las 39 internacionales que mostraron su disconformidad a la RFEF. Entre otras, además, están jugadoras que se negaron a acudir al Mundial como Mapi León, Laia Aleixandri, Amaiur Sarriegi, Lucía García y Patri Guijarro.' "There are 23 players who will represent Spain in this first challenge after winning the World Cup. Yes, 20 of the 39 international players who expressed their dissatisfaction with the RFEF have been called up. Among others, there are also players who refused to attend the World Cup, such as Mapi León, Laia Aleixandri, Amaiur Sarriegi, Lucía García, and Patri Guijarro." 'Y Jenni Hermoso, aunque Montse Tomé explicó que está completamente de su lado. “La mejor forma de protegerla era no convocarla”, aseguró.' "(Regarding) Jenni Hermoso, although Montse Tomé explained that she is completely on her side. "The best way to protect her was not to call her," she said." https://as.com/futbol/femenino/montse-tome-convocada-a-las-campeonas-del-mundo-n/ according to Tomé, no one refused the call: '¿Alguna jugadora te ha pedido no venir convocada? "No".' https://as.com/futbol/femenino/montse-tome-convocada-a-las-campeonas-del-mundo-n/
Hopefully the players and RFEF managed to come to an understanding and we will be able to focus of their achievements and play going forward.
I haven't seen anything to indicate they came to understanding. It looks more like a way for RFEF to pressure the players to show up. Here is AFE's statement (AFE is the players' union): AFE (Spanish FA) Statement"This conflict has reached terms that are considered intolerable and that seriously damage the image of Spanish women's football. From AFE we appeal to the RFEF to cease its efforts to pressure the players..." pic.twitter.com/EIfvEk5tX8— Taylor Vincent (@tayvincent6) September 18, 2023 There are repercussions under Spanish sport law if the players don't respond to the call-up (see the whole thread below), but RFEF giving less notice to clubs than they are supposed to could create the loophole for players not to show up without repercussions (I'm not sure about that, but it seems possible): If players were to refuse the call up, it could be deemed under Spanish Sport Law as a punishable offence that could result in sanctions ranging from a fine to losing their playing licenses. This applies to all players listed in Montse Tome’s squad.— Emily Keogh (@emilyskeogh) September 18, 2023
Yeah, it is possible. It happened once in France in men's football. We had a lot of injuries in attack and Nicolas Anelka got a late call-up. He refused so the FFF started to prepare disciplinary proceeding until the player told them he was not in the initial pre-selection that is sent two weeks before the official one and therefore not compulsory for him to attend. If the RFEF did not put the pre-list with the right players they can refuse.
According to German press the 15 players called up again from the WWC squad are actively looking into suing the RFEF for being called up without any previous agreement.
This is crazy, just when you thought the RFEF was getting back on track. They fired Vilda (as requested), Rubiales finally came to his senses (or was forced to), and they were in talks with the players. Who will want to play under Tomé? This saga has more twists than a Netflix police series! Let's see how this unfolds; it's truly crazy. At least public opinion will side with the players if RFEF starts legal proceedings. The players should also consider approaching the UN or the European Union to initiate proceedings. While I still think their demands could have been clearer, RFEF's response highlights why this whole mess started in the first place.
Pretty damning statements by Hermoso. Not sure what the RFEF aims to gain with this move. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/19/spain-women-squad-jenni-hermoso-nothing-has-changed
Rubiales and Vilda have a lot of friends at the RFEF who are probably pissed off that they have been removed from power. So these people are getting revenge on the players by forcing them to come. Nothing surprising about it, it is a power struggle.
Whenever there is a large organization that undergoes a major transition that is forced by external pressures that do NOT force a complete restructuring of all internal groups it is not abnormal for remnants of the failed parts to retain attributes of what caused the problems in the first place to try to prevent further changes. It is also not unusual for the people that caused/originated/exposed the problem to be retaliated against in subtle ways. Usually, when that happens, the people most involved, on both sides, have real problems functioning inside that group for a period of time and, sometimes, there are people that never recover their functionality within said group. Again, as I mentioned before, look what happened in Canada to Charmaine Hooper and much of the Canadian women's national team, after their rebellion many years back. I do not really know where this ends up but it does seem that both sides are trying to work past the problems but it will take time and some people may never "recover." At least it will not be boring to be an outside observer for a while.
Sounds like there has been a late night/early morning agreement. 21 of the 23 players will go to Sweden. Expectation is that several RFEF execs will be fired tomorrow. Also there will be some kind of commission formed between the players, RFEF, and Spanish sports council. https://as.com/futbol/femenino/misa-y-olga-primeras-en-ceder-athenea-tambien-concentrada-n/
Reporting by The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...boycott-after-being-promised-profound-changes Highlights by me.
'la salida de figuras como Andreu Camps (secretario general), Tomás González Cueto (abogado externo y mano derecha de Rubiales) o Miguel García Caba (responsable del Departamento de Integridad), entre otras. Estos nombres, de entrada, que seguramente sean despedidos antes del partido contra Suecia. Pero habrá más. La Federación ya rescindió esta misma semana algún contrato de colaboradores estrechos de Rubiales.' The following individuals are to be fired before their match against Sweden: - Andreu Camps - General Secretary - Tomás González Cueto - Lawyer and closely linked to Rubiales - Miguel García Caba - Head of the Integrity Department (free translation) - not sure if this is a compliance or equity-type department - Among others named who work closely with Rubiales They also asked for the Women's National Team to have the same structure as the Men's National Team (Number of staff? I guess). So, it needed to get worse to get better somehow. At least now, there are detailed demands so everyone can move forward. But it is hard to understand how badly RFEF managed this crisis...
https://inspain.news/a-new-era-of-e...ied-brand-for-mens-and-womens-national-teams/ A new era of equality in Spanish football: RFEF announces unified brand for men’s and women’s national teams September 21, 2023 MADRID – In a historic move aimed at promoting gender equality and eliminating distinctions in football, the Royal Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) has officially unveiled a groundbreaking change in the nomenclature of the national teams. As of Wednesday, both the men’s and women’s national teams will proudly bear the singular brand of ‘Spanish National Football Team,’ marking a significant shift in the world of Spanish football. The announcement comes on the eve of the UEFA Women’s Nations League, with Spain set to face off against Sweden in a highly anticipated match. This development came as a result of the Spanish women’s national team´s intentions not to compete unless certain changes were made to the way they were represented. Discrimination The issues had been building up since the year bofore the World Cup, and intensified immediately after Spain’s historic victory in Sydney. Despite their remarkable achievement, and the subesquent resignation of Luis Rubiales, and the sacking of Jorge Vilda, the players still found themselves embroiled in a dispute regarding the nomenclature used to distinguish the men’s and women’s teams. The women’s team had long borne the designation ‘femenino’ (female), a distinction they felt was unnecessary and, in some ways, discriminatory.
Looks like the justice investigation around Rubiales has been extended to include Jorge Vilda, Rubén Rivera and Albert Luque as those three tried to pressure Hermoso to drop the accusation against Rubiales. Edit: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...on-as-criminal-court-looks-into-rubiales-kiss
When legal proceedings involving powerful people get complicated here in the USA it often means that no "justice" actually happens. I hope this is not true for Spain. I also hope, if Spain does a decent job of getting justice, that other, more backward cultures, like here in the USA, learns something. But our legal system is not exactly designed for justice.