The inevitable war with Venezuela

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by teammellieIRANfan, Sep 9, 2025.

  1. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    New Caledonia
    And South Korea.
     
  2. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    He doesn't think so...


    Add this


    Right...Historical evidence and court rulings show that the South Korean government not only knew about the prostitution system around U.S. military bases but actively managed and sanctioned it for decades.
     
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  3. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #128 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Dec 5, 2025
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2025
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  4. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    New Caledonia
    Ya got me there.
    South Korea would be much better off if Dear Leader was in charge.
     
  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Nothing to be grateful about. There is no need to rip off any masks. Most people who lived in South America in the 70s and 80s are not under any illusion about the intentions of the US, and Trump is taking it to a whole new level. Maduro is despicable and most Venezuelans and South Americans are hoping he will fall, but not this way. The US getting involved in bringing him down is only going to cause more harm to the region.

    Now you are overreaching. An extremist politician who could only muster some 10 percent of the vote when he recently ran for Major of Tokyo and finishes a distant third may have something to say, but he obviously doesn't speak for most of the Japanese people.

    Are you taking the position that quoting this man who is seen as an extremist saying that Japan is a US colony proves that the Japanese people see themselves as a US colony?
     
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  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I'm seeing a trend here. Just like the US government, anyone disagreeing with their view of the world is "an extremist" that needs their credibility destroyed and more... Then Americans keep not wanting to own who they put in power who happen to be a reflection of them... Very interesting.

    You can disagree with his interpretation of the facts but they are facts nonetheless.
     
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  7. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Quoting some extremist politician is not quoting facts. He is not considered an extremist in Japan necessarily because of that quote, but because of his views in general. But if you are arguing that the Japanese people see their country as a colony of the US based on what he said, that is not an argument, you have to do better than that.
     
  8. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    No he doesn’t.

    When has he ever?
     
  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I didn't say "all Japanese people" - I said "he doesn't think so" while touching on the issue in Okinawa where the continued presence of US bases fuels debate about sovereignty and autonomy.

    Japan hosts around 50,000 US troops with Okinawa bearing 70% of this presence. Despite decades of local opposition, base expansion continues. For local critics, the inability of Japan to fully control its own territory or to remove foreign troops against Washington’s wishes is a clear sign of compromised sovereignty... That's what "your extremist" was touching on while expanding on the broader consequences such as Russia refusing to return their territories.

    Let's dig deeper - In the 1980s, Japan was at the height of its economic power. Its automobile, electronics and semiconductor industries were dominating global markets which caused real anxiety in Washington. The US exerted heavy pressure on Tokyo forcing a series of concessions that slowed Japan’s growth. (Voluntary Export Restraints/ Semiconductor Agreement /Plaza Accord / Forced Market Openings). For critics in Japan, these episodes show how Japan behaved like a “colony” unable to fully defend its own sovereign interests. Even Canada wouldn't agree to a fraction of those concessions.

    The article below highlights that this isn't an isolated feeling. The fact that over 40% of Japanese want a more independent course can indeed be read as evidence that the “colony” narrative exists beyond intellectual circles.
    https://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/d01157/
    • A Nippon.com survey finds that nearly 70% of Japanese think ties with the United States have worsened, while a rising group of more than 40% want Japan to strike a course more independent from its alliance partner.
    In the end, free to "agree to disagree" on this - but it's fair to say that this sentiment isn't fringe nor an extremist view in Japan

    Going back to Venezuela and the initial claim that triggered all of this :
    • Has there even been any place that was better off after they came?
    I maintain that it's reasonable to say US presence/intervention has generally been disproportionately bad for non-European nations. While Japan and South Korea are different, this doesn't change the perception that success is allowed only under US terms.

    Venezuela would be no different - controlled by Washington/US corporation or destroyed which is viewed as a "false choice".
     
  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Plenty of times but you don't like your view of the world to be challenged
     
  11. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You have to think here. The gentleman you quoted is known as an anti Japanese-establishment politician, and whatever he says has to be taken in that context.

    As far as the US bases, I am sure that there is some ambivelence among the Japanese about having them, and rightly so, but from there to argue as you are arguing is a long stretch.

    Let's be real. There is no perfect society, but Japan is a country that is freer than most, more prosperous than most, and it is nobody's colony. And, for the most part it benefits from being allied to the United States.
     
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I can agree with most of this and agree to disagree on the rest like the 80s financial concessions
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I put him on ignore after one too many times of the text of a link not matching his description. He pretty clearly has his arguments already set, then does a quick search for backup. But, like I said, I think he just reads the headlines.

    Ignore doesn’t work that great when people respond and I’ve got to figure out what’s going on. :(
     
  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Says the guy quoting me on the soccer thread like 10 minutes ago :ROFLMAO:
     
  15. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
  16. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I think a better descriptor would be Japan and South Korea are Vassal States. In the event of War in South Korea for example, an American is in charge of both SK and American forces.

    You can't exactly say they have complete sovereignty under such an arrangement.
     
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  17. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Vassals States, you definitely put it in much better terms than I did. Nevertheless, my detractors ridiculed the notion that there was such thing when I pointed that out too.

    For what it's worth, they might "tolerate" client state better
     
  18. cliche_guevara

    cliche_guevara Member+

    Jun 1, 2004
    San Francisco, CA
    Can we block this shit yet?
     
  19. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    I agree with returning this discussion to the main topic, but let us skip false dichotomies.

    It can feel good to flex our history/geopolitics knowledge. But, we should try advancing our understanding of events considering the varying degrees of how countries reacted after military intervention. There is no Heavenly Success / Hellish Failure coin flip, but multiple consecutive dice throws. In all scenarios, infrastructure loss and death followed with varying periods of prolonged misery.

    For a period, Venezuelan opposition advocated for direct US military intervention while quoting post-WW2 policy, ensuring that some *Marshall Plan* would become available to Venezuelans once Chavez/Maduro was forcibly taken out. Even worse, they would assert that Einsenhower's Domino Effect justified intervening in Venezuela, or the rest of South America would follow down the drain. Seriously, like some high school student quoting stuff from their World History class, while omitting that Einsenhower's first domino piece did not even *infect* Asia: Vietnamese people fought Chinese tanks after US warplanes left their airspace, all because colonial France left a mess behind. Instead of acknowledging another country's costly fight for independence across decades, *experts* prefer citing the *Vietnam conflict* as a Cold War case study.

    We have enough *experts* walking this Earth cherry-picking incomplete world history examples for whatever narrative they want to push. Be it for rage baiting, ego boosting, plain ignorance or whatever reason, I see a folly of ignoring the cost of past suffering while contemplating benefits from future rounds of misery.

    Not a call for Peace on Earth or likes, just asking whether this Gotcha game with simplified historical events furthers our understanding of the present.
     
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  20. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Maybe the drunk is uhh...lying?

    Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth on Saturday defended the Sept. 2 strike on survivors of an initial U.S. military attack on an alleged drug boat.

    Hegseth made the remarks at the Reagan National Defense Forum during a conversation with Fox News correspondent Lucas Y. Tomlinson. He told Tomlinson that he had left the room after the first strike and before the second-strike order was given but said that he would have made the same decision
    .

    We were in such peril tho

    “From what I understood then and what I understand now, I fully support that strike,” he told Tomlinson. “I would have made the same call myself. Those who were involved in 20 years of conflict, Iraq and Afghanistan or elsewhere, know that re-attacks and re-strikes of combatants on the battlefield happen often.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...ame-call-second-sept-2-boat-strike-rcna247795
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s a delicate balance for him…he can’t say the murder was wrong, because he thinks the murder is a good thing. So he has to say things like, I didn’t do it but it was the right thing to do.

    Many of you might say that, to pick a random example, it’s a good thing to shoot Nazis in the neck. But saying it and doing it is in the difference between Libs of TikTok trying to get you fired and the federal government trying to get you fried. (Do we still use the electric chair? I doubt it, but I had to throw in the fired/fried wordplay.)
     
  22. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Everything you need to know about the US policy towards Venezuela and the rest of the world for that matter is in this pretentious, arrogant and tyrannical piece of garbage of a document.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/2025-National-Security-Strategy.pdf
    20251207_171923.png

    Western Hemisphere
    • Deny access to the western hemisphere to any non-western hemisphere powers aka telling Latin America, Caribbean and Canada HOW & WHO to do business with - or else.
    • Anyone who don't further US goals - they will and I quote "cultivate new partners" - through obviously regime change operations
    • The concept of "Real Burden Sharing" - meaning demanding from allies in the Western Hemisphere to do more of the enforcing of US priorities for the Americas for Washington - even if this isn't in those countries own interests. Can be interpreted as "we expect you to do the fighting for us" in place like Haiti, Nicaragua, Venezuela and obviously - Colombia has to be next on the list.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Quite the reputation the US are getting - add piracy and petty theft
    upload_2025-12-10_14-20-11.png
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hoo boy…the US has seized a “sanctioned” Venezuelan oil tanker. (First I’ve heard of “sanctions”, but then I haven’t followed this story much because I’m assuming TACO will prevail.)

    https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/10/us-venezuela-oil-tanker-seize.html

    Im going to paraphrase something @spejic wrote about Iraq…if the tanker was carrying billions of dollars worth of gold, everybody would know exactly what we’re doing.

    Making oil risky is a proven way to trigger more inflation.
     
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  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    And it's 1, 2, 3
    Whatta we fighting for? (Oil)
    Don't ask him, he don't give a damn
    Next stop's the Caribbean
    And it's 5, 6, 7, open up the pearly gates
    Well there ain't no time to wonder why
    Whoopee! Brown folk gonna die
     

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