Pre-match: The inevitable war with Iran

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Q*bert Jones III, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. +PL+

    +PL+ Member+

    Jun 22, 2015
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    #1676 +PL+, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
    I know you have reported for Iranian media on sport events and possibly have some connection with BBC/Persian. Read tweet of Bahman Kalbasi again. The fire has been inside the complex. Can you show inside of the complex now?

    I know BBC/Persian downplay every crazy event inside Iran because part of their reporters and staff members are or were reformists; they belong to reformist camp of Islamic regime of Iran. (Former president Khatami was head of reformist camp who later kissed supreme leader's rear and turned his back on people)
     
  2. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
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    New here?
     
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  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    We don't seem able to agree on much else. Lets see if we can agree on music -- specifically, music that is about IRAN.

    Here are some of my favorites. I am going to use the translation for those which have already been translated and do my own translation for some of them.

    Like this one, sang by the late Mohammad Nouri here as part of the ceremonies marking a major milestone in Iran's nuclear enrichment capabilities:

    Journey for the Homeland
    To ask the name of an unknown flower:

    What trips we have made, what trips we have made.
    To kiss the sand on the head of the summit of the mountains:
    What risks we have taken, what risks we have taken.
    To make Iran the home of the noble:
    We have suffered the pain of ages, we have suffered the pain of ages.
    To make Iran a shining jewel:
    We have drank the blood of sorrow from our hearts,
    We have drank the blood of sorrow from our hearts.

    To smell the scent of the wild rose:
    What roads we have traveled, what roads we have traveled.
    To drink the salty water of the deserts:
    What risks we have taken, what risks we have taken.
    To sing this song of Love to You:
    We have suffered the pain of ages, we have suffered the pain of ages.
    To make this Love of you Eternal:
    We have drank the blood of sorrow from our hearts, we have drank the blood of sorrow from our hearts.
    ...
    Eye IRAN.

    -----------
    Also this one, here song by Salar Aghili in front of a live studio audience as a guest of Mehran Modiri's Dor-hami (get-together) late night show:

    Translation by one of those commenting on the video as follows:
    I like this one too and it comes with English sub-titles itself. It was Iran's national anthem from 1873-1909:

    And I like Iran's national anthem, from the Pahlavi era, as well, here with English sub-titles:


    The only people I can't stand are those who try to invite foreigners to settle differences between Iranians.

    Otherwise, the same way the fact that I enjoy "ghormez sabzi" and so many other Persian dishes doesn't preclude me from liking 'sushi', Italian food (and the cuisines from many other place: Indian, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Mexican, French, Greek Middle Eastern, and Mediterranean and fusion too), or even an occasional Big Mac sandwich (and if not apple pie as much, then quite a few other American specialties like Texas BB-Q grill, Cajun food etc); the same way the fact that I love Iran's traditional hotels and restaurants doesn't mean I hate more modern hotels in Iran or elsewhere; the same way the fact that I love Iran's Islamic art and architecture doesn't mean I don't like our pre-Islamic art and architecture in Iran, or classical and renaissance art and architecture in Europe; the same way I enjoy many Iranian movies and songs doesn't mean I don't enjoy many which are made elsewhere, including even in Hollywood; I personally love to see an Iran that is tolerant of its diversity -- even as its people learn to show respect for the choices of its majority on issues that the majority rightfully should decide. And stop pretending that the majority have NOT chosen, over and over again, ever since the referendum that established the Islamic Republic and since then in countless elections, political rallies, in polls, in every way the majority can speak out their mind. Including when they appeared in the millions to mourn their fallen hero, General Soleimani.
    The usual suspects can try to censor these pictures, and try to superimpose their own videos on it, but these people aren't going anywhere. And they won't forget.
     
  4. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    IIRC Hank Williams wrote Jambalaya to honor the 1st succesful hydrogen bomb test in '52
     
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  5. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    My favourite Iran song is “My Iran” by Homayon Shahajarian, preformed live here at a palace in Tehran:




    Audio only, but high quality:

     
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1681 Iranian Monitor, May 17, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    The Homayoon Shajarian song I really like (and which my wife likes even more) is this one. It is awesome.

    The video was played over the Iranian movie, "Rag-e Khab" and has English sub-titles in this video. I highly recommend this piece by Homayoon Shajarian.
     
  7. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1682 Mani, May 17, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    I was talking about patriotic-themed songs specifically. Otherwise, Homayon Shajarian has many masterpieces. And my favourite Homayon Shajarian song would have to be this love song which has English subtitles too:

     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    My favorite from him, overall, is the one I mentioned. While it isn't patriotic per se, but it has political themes. And except those who lie to promote their political agendas, or who invite foreign invitation, I consider all others (regardless of their politics) patriotic in their own way. The "ahay-e khabar" song by Homayoon Shajarian for me is in the same genre: the themes can be interpreted in an anti-regime manner. I like it very much regardless.

    Talking about songs with some political themes, even though for various reasons I don't want to get into right now, I didn't support the "Green movement", I really like this video with one of my favorite political type Iranian songs. To be sure, this song dates from long before the Green movement, but it was a powerful enough piece to inspire many in that movement. I like this video, even if I felt the protests were misguided.
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2009/11/my-grade-school-friend.html
    "My Grade-School Friend"

     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Talking about political songs:

    As an Iranian who lived in exile in California at the time, separated from Iran (as much by my own false perceptions about Iran, as the realities which made the first decades after the revolution not exactly welcoming to people like me), I used to enjoy this song very much. Shared its sentiments fully.

     
  10. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
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    I cannot think of anything I would want to do less than listed to music about Iran.
     
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  11. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1686 Mani, May 17, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    That’s because you have no taste. You should listen to the first national anthem of Iran from 1873 to learn a thing or two about racial quality, from a civilization that abolished slavery 2500 years ago. The anthem says “all with one name and symbol, with different colours and languages”. Now this is from the same era when your forefathers were still fighting a civil war about who can or cannot own slaves, and more than 100 years before you finally got rid of legal segregation of races. ;)

     
  12. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Not even an Iranian KISS cover band led by Gene Simmonseini?
     
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  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    It is honestly your loss. But here is something in a language you can understand. Lets see how you spin this?





    Here is the breakdown for math, which I have done before, comparing Iran to various countries. It is the same story for physics and chemistry basically.

    https://www.imo-official.org/results_country.aspx
    Country..................................Year of First Participation...............Number of Participants.... Gold Medals..

    I.R. Iran...........................................1985 .............199............................. 45
    France.............................................1967............. 282 .............................24
    Turkey ............................................ 1978..............218.............................19
    Israel ..............................................1979 ..............226 ............................14
    India ...............................................1989 .............186..............................12
    Brazil...............................................1979..............237..............................10

    The rest of the gang in the ME get a combined zero gold medals, including Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq and the rest.

    Brazil, with 10 Gold medals, is the best performer in Latin America. In Western Europe, Germany (51) and the UK (48.) and, have more gold medals than Iran (45). All the rest don't, with France the next best in western Europe -- and many don't have any gold medals at all.

    In terms of countries which have won these academic Olympiads outright, with more medals than anyone else, in at least one edition:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And finally this video: if you watch it, you will see Iran enters the top 15 ranking very late in terms of science production, but it is the only one from our region that is on the list.

     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    In the meantime, more closely tied to the issues of war/peace between the US and Iran, another confrontation could be brewing as Iran sends some tankers carrying fuel to help Venezuela offset fuel shortages caused by US sanctions.

    https://www.click2houston.com/news/...ailing-to-venezuela-amid-us-pressure-tactics/
    5 Iran tankers sailing to Venezuela amid US pressure tactics
     
  15. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I'm gonna praise Iran all night
    And post hotel pics all day

    Gene-Simmons-KISS.jpg
     
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  16. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
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    After seeing the pictures posted, I’m relieved that we have different definitions of taste[emoji23]
     
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  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I don't know what are the 52 targets, including cultural sites, Trump had in mind when he threatened to destroy them if Iran responded to the assassination of General Soleimani by hitting any US 'assets', but here are a few of Iran's more notable cultural sites.

    I went to this site, which divides its pictures in different categories. Of course, I have to be mindful of the 10 picture limit per post, but I will start with some pictures from the following categories:
    Best squares in Iran
    1- Naghshe Jahan Square, Isfahan
    [​IMG]
    There is a lot, just in this square, to see -- all of it rather amazing. It brings together, in rather perfect harmony, the different elements in Persian culture: the great mosques representing the spiritual aspects of life; the historic bazaar and the material aspects of life; the Safavid era royal reception and palace, representing government, and what as the huge polo ground for sports and entertainment. Choosing which one to highlight is tough, but I will go with the mosques -- only because of the prejudice that exists these days against anything that has an "Islamic" label.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    2- Amir chakhmaq square of Yazd
    [​IMG]
    3- Azadi square of Tehran
    [​IMG]
    ...
    Best bridges in Iran
    1- Si-o-se pol bridge of Isfahan (400+ year old bridge part of half a dozen historic bridges from mainly the Safavid era which crosses the Zayandeh roud river in Isfahan).
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    2- The Khaju is another of Isfahan's great historic bridges built by Shah Abas in 1650.
    [​IMG]

    3-Tabiat bridge of Tehran -- this is an example of the modern bridges that are meant to have more than just a utilitarian function built in Tehran recently.

    [​IMG]

    3- Veresk bridge (connecting the railway from Tehran to Mazanderan, constructed under Reza Shah in the 1930s, became famous as the "bridge of victory" during WWII when the allies invaded and occupied Iran.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1693 Iranian Monitor, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    I have covered some of the 'best squares" and some of the "best bridges" in Iran. There are plenty of more categories for Trump to choose from. I like to know the 'taste' of those who visit this page before I post images from those categories. But please make sure you don't ask for pictures of bars and bikini lad women at the beach. While I probably could find Iranian versions of America's "speak easy" from the prohibition era, and even though Iran's restrictions on female attire is similar to what also prevailed in America back then, its best to look for other things in Iran.

    On the latter, for those who aren't as historically versed even when it comes to American history, this article should be interesting:
    https://mashable.com/2015/05/27/swimsuit-police/
    1920s: The swimwear police

    This, of course, was after the rules had been relaxed. Before then, even a one-piece bathing suit could get you arrested:
    https://www.boston.com/news/history...e-piece-bathing-suit-got-her-arrested-in-1907
    This woman’s one-piece bathing suit got her arrested in 1907
    Annette Kellerman dared to show her legs on Revere Beach.

    p.s.
    The attitude of some middle/upper middle class, westernized, Iranians on this whole 'hijab' issue is almost akin to Americans in 1914, instead of working patiently within their cultural and legal rules to make change, appealing to some foreign power (say the Kaiser) to 'liberate them'. Rather foolish if you ask me, even if I am not a fan of some of Iran's social restrictions (many observed more or less in the breach than enforced all that seriously or streneously).
     
  19. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    We can find them. These dames would be popular at any Whitelandian shooting range.

    ISLAMIC_WOMEN_BW019_xgaplus.jpg
     
  20. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Iranian women are world champions in Karate, Kung Fu, and Wushu. They would kick your ass, even with the black Chador on lol



     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I have noticed that you are one of those who those try, mightily I might add, to project an image of Iran which would be quite popular for the 'Whitelandian shooting range" you speak of. It is actually one of the undercurrents in many of the propaganda images about Iran, particularly ironically from those who claim to resist and oppose the racism they try to stoke.

    First, let me say this quite clearly upfront: racism is ultimately about stupidity and prejudice, not even skin color or race. Those women in the chador that you show will include people of many different shades of color, even if all of them will look "foreign" and will, therefore, entice the prejudices you allude to.

    Second, having said that, I like to be clear: it is okay for "Nordics" or those who want to associate themselves with "Scandinavians" to pick some such terms to distinguish themselves from most Iranians. But the term "white" was taken long before any of these folks had developed in any culture or civilization. Most Iranians (not all) would consider themselves some shade of 'white', although I have noticed some those being raised in the US who have begun distinguishing themselves as being something other than "white".

    Third, from a scientific perspective, whether in terms of classification of races, or in terms of the distribution of the genetic allele for 'fair skin', the population of most of the ME (including Iran) would be considered as Caucasians or white.

    Fourth, in traditional Persian vernacular on the subject, used to describe the different shades of skin color for most of the population (not counting a small minority mainly in the southern shores of the Persian Gulf or the Baluchis near the Pakistan border falling outside the "Iranian Genetic Cluster") would be divided between the following:

    --- "sefid" ("white'"). Like the women in this picture below, who (unlike a large number of Iranian women) are actually observing their 'hijab' strictly:
    [​IMG]
    Or to use pictures from better known Iranians, women such as the Iranian actress, Leila Hatami:
    [​IMG]

    --- Or, on the other end of the spectrum, "sabzeh" (literally, meaning "green-ish" but signifying "olive skin" color), which is the category that this Iranian actress would fall into (picture of Golshifteh Farahani, who left Iran and now works outside of the country, but here before she was "liberated"):
    [​IMG]

    And then you have category that falls between the two, neither strictly 'sefid' nor strictly 'sabzeh', called 'gandomi' (wheat-ish). And these different categories can be found in any large enough gathering of Iranians (such as the picture of Iranian women below attending a football match after the restrictions on their attendance was relaxed under both domestic pressure and pressure by FIFA) and even within many Iranian families even among siblings.
    [​IMG]


    And, finally, last but not least, you have your work cut out for you to get the "Whitelandia" racists (as deplorable as they are) become the culprit for the PNAC planners and folks who are actively working to destroy Iran. Or those who openly take pride in "killing Iranians". I will have to deal with this one separately, as Iran's relationship with "Whitelandia" is itself quite an interesting tale. But I will tell you this: listen to Roger Cohen: Iran is NOT for amateurs. You are barking up the wrong tree.
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Before I deal, at some length, with the whole "whitelandia' comment he made, let me say this: it must really hurt those who like to paint the picture they like to paint of Iranian women, when:

    1- more young Iranian women have earned gold medals in academic Olympiads than the men in the other countries in our region and beyond.
    2- when most of Iran's university graduates, including up to 60% of graduates from medical schools in Iran (and up to 70% in certain other fields) are actually women.
    3- when the first ever women to win the mathematics equivalent of the Nobel Prize, was an Iranian women (the late Maryam Mirzakhani) who had been one of Iran's Math Olympiad gold winners, had been educated in Iran, before moving to the US to teach at Stanford.
    4- when Iranian women rank among the top 20 in the world chess rankings, above the rest of the women in our region (including Israel).
    5- when you have Iranian women working in all fields, and contributing in all of the professions, including even traditionally male dominated professions, such as being 'truck drivers', 'taxi drivers', or more notably, airplane pilots.
    ....
    ....
     
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Now, as it relates specifically to Iran's relationship with "Whitelandia":

    1- the racism in America should be a concern for all, including Iran and Iranians. Racism is stupid, of course, but the it is mainly stoked by ignorance -- and can easily be manipulated. The Askhkenazi Jews were once painted as something other than really "white" in Europe and elsewhere, not because of skin color, but because cultural differences (and idiotic racial theories which I will discuss) meant to stoke prejudice against the "other". Unfortunately, some of the folks who know want to stoke the same hatred towards their enemies, including Iran and Iranians, are working with the racists who once were busy targeting them.

    2- while racism is anything but scientific or intellectually coherent, the founder of what is referred to as "scientific racism", Comte de Gobineau, was actually someone who was quite enamored with Iran! In fact, despite looking down even on many of his own French countrymen as being something other than real Aryans (which he confused with Nordics), and not being all that happy even when in the company of real Nordics in places like Sweden where he also served (he was a widely traveled diplomat), the one country that he loved the most (despite decrying that the Persians had become a mixed race and not being happy that they weren't as interested in his racial theories and were tolerant of other races ) was actually Iran. Some excerpts from the Wikipedia entry on Comte de Gobineau might be instructive:
    Gobineau's love of Iran comes through the most when he returned to Iran in 1861 Despite his aristocratic background which made him disdain mixing with lower classes in his own country, he spend most of his time in Iran in the company of very modest folks despite being technically France's ambassador to Iran.
    3- as it so happens, in good part because of the way "Aryan supremacy" theories developed in Europe, Iranians were exempted from Hitler's Nuremberg laws as 'true Aryans'. This, in turn, and quite ironically, allowed one of Iran's diplomats to ironically use his office to help many Jews escape Nazi persecution in Europe. See this BBC report about: The 'Iranian Schindler' who saved Jews from the Nazis

    4- the modern day racists in America are often not exactly into even the "pseudo" scientific racism of Gobineau and his ilk. Nonetheless, there were ironically prominent figures within even the "Alt Right" movement in America who were Iranian-Americans. In fact, the co-founder of Alt-Right org (along with Spencer) was Jason Reza Jorgani (an Iranian-American).

    The NY Times had THIS undercover story about the Alt Right movement, which featured Jason Jorgani prominently. Jorgani. Jorgani had a fall in with the group, covered in this piece:
    ALT FIGHT:
    Jason Jorjani Fancied Himself an Intellectual Leader of a White Supremacist Movement — Then It Came Crashing Down

    But as Jason Jorgani's writings and interviews show, despite his quite delusional views and theories, he is ultimately an Iranian nationalist.


    In fact, he even attacked Trump for his Iran policies on rather nationalistic grounds. While already upset at Trump for his policies against Iran, Jorjani blasted Trump's assassination of General Soleimani as well. Here is an interview he gave to a right wing radio talk show:
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/S7Rij3xnKsmd/

    Which then goes to show that even the Alt right movement in America is not as hostile to Iranian nationalist sentiments as certain other, more overtly anti-Iranian, groups trying to destroy Iran.

    5- while a good many of America's racists have been co-opted by, and now work with the pro Israel lobby, ultimately Iran has less to fear from these idiots than the drivers of the PNAC project, namely the retards who make up the Christian evangelical/Christian Zionist movement, along with the military industrial complex and the ultra Zionist folks who work with them and who, together, form the most dominant interest group behind the Republican party these days -- and who have their tentacles within the Democratic party as well. At the grass routes level, most of these racists are busy targeting America's most vulnerable communities, while being rather non-interventionist in foreign affairs. While "Islamophobia" is certainly a strong element within this group, their predominately non-interventionist sentiments (and their whole disdain of seeing the US involved in foreign enterprises and such) make them a danger mostly to the most visible socio-economic and racial classes in America that fall within the ambit of their racism. Iranian-Americans who are more visibly "middle eastern" might end up having a nasty run-in with these folks, but since most Iranian-Americans are upper middle class, well educated, and quite a few aren't all that distinguishable from the rest of the American population (especially living mostly in regions which are pretty diverse), for now the danger to Iran is primarily, not from Whitelandia, but the usual suspects behind PNAC.
     
  24. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I don't care what color the AK-47 Babes are. They gotta be nice to have around in the rougher sections of Tehran. You still have crime, right? Hasn't been totally eradicated.
     
  25. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1700 Mani, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    Looks like Iran invented Alt-Right, quite literally. :ROFLMAO:
     

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