Pre-match: The inevitable war with Iran

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Q*bert Jones III, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
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    In the meantime, it is not one thing or another that makes even the Shah's former foreign minister (or, for that matter, someone like me who was actually opposed to the Iranian revolution, coming from family which included people who served in high positions during the Shah's regime), to acknowledge things that some don't want to. But these very neat videos/graphics are part of that equation. They show the number of Iranian students winning medals in academic Olympiads. They show when Iran actually started out in these competitions. They show how others in our region, including those with good relations with the US, are doing (mainly by the fact that they don't come close to the top list --- all of them put together, having fewer gold medals than Iran alone). Looked at in conjunction with how Iran rated even regionally in terms of scientific production before the revolution, they tell you a lot more than some like to pretend. True, with Iran being in loggerheads with the world's top economic, military and political superpower, the opportunities for personal advancement for many of these students will be outside of Iran. And Iran does have a serious 'brain drain' issue. On the other hand, while many of these students leave Iran each year, there are also plenty who stay in Iran (including many who had donated their medals to Iran's Supreme Leader), not to mention many more who are right behind these students.



     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
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    They say "math doesn't lie". Even though in some subjects such as physics and chemistry, Iran has done even better comparatively, lets focus on math. Lets see if these statistics can be spun to lie!

    This is the website for the mathematics Olympiad rankings per country, showing their Gold and other medals.
    https://www.imo-official.org/results_country.aspx
    An image from the top 20 countries would show this:
    [​IMG]
    Overall, despite coming to the competition later than most others, Iran ranks among the top 10 overall once you exclude the Soviet Union and East Germany (both Russia and Germany are in the top already).

    But that is not the really striking feature of these rankings. The real striking feature when you compare Iran (which has 45 Gold medals) to others is this:

    1- All of the countries in the Middle East, North Africa, and the Indian subcontinent, combined, have only 45 Gold medals compared to 45 Gold medals by Iran standing alone! That is because other than Turkey (19G), Israel (14G), India (12G), none of the others even have a single gold medal!

    2- In the rest of the developing world, outside of East Asia, in Latin America or Central America (here, counting Mexico which is part of N. America technically, as part of the gang), or Africa, you can't find too many countries which have earned a single gold medal. The exception seems to be Brazil with 10 Gold medals, Argentina with 5 Gold medals, and Mexico with 3. None of the rest seem to have earned a single Gold medal.

    3- Even in Western Europe, the only countries with more Gold medals than Iran are Germany (51) and the UK (48), with even France (24) trailing Iran. Other than Italy (15), most of the rest of the western European countries either don't have gold medals at all (e.g. Spain), or have no more than a handful.

    Now to my point: when I hear some of those who attacked Ardeshir Zahedi claim that "all nations in our region have also progressed in education' the past 40 years, I want to ask them this: Yes, of course, but don't pretend that they have progressed in the same way. Don't pretend that when Iran (under maximum pressure and a worldwide embargo of sorts, putting huge obstacles against even the most mundane trade much less in sensitive technologies and IP transfers) became only the 8th nation in the world to put a satellite into space in 2009, and recently put a military satellite into space using a solid fuel rocket for its second stage, that when it develops missiles, drones and other stuff that few nations can ever develop on their own, that all this can be ridiculed as "taragheh" (fire crackers). With a picture of 'aftabeh" to put down the efforts of a nation that has stood up and withstood even the "maximum pressure" (and threats of war) by the world's top superpower. And done so, not without its costs, but in a way where the REAL IRAN is the one anyone can see for themselves now days using Google-Earth Iran instead of nonsense and propaganda.
     
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
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    In the meantime, while Iran's economy has naturally taken hits by both the maximum pressure campaign and the Covid-19 pandemic, investors in Iran don't seem deterred pouring their money in Iran's stock market. Something that has propaganda organs like this one which is funded by the US government, running around trying to figure why and how? And doing what they can to sow panic and distrust in Iran's markets.

    https://en.radiofarda.com/a/governm...while-investors-risk-everything/30585537.html
    Government In Iran Touting A Rising Stock Market While Investors Risk Everything
    Left without much else to say, they try to sow panic and pretend that investors putting their money were the mouths are, are being 'unprofessional'!

     
  4. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
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    I was told that by MSM that Iran was about to collapse because of Covid...then how come the EU and Germany are buying tens of thousands of Iranian-made test kits?

     
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  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
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    Because authoritarian regimes will often do things that for PR purposes while ignoring the plight of their people.
     
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  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Any stock market that gains 300% in 12 months could just as likely lose 75% over the next 12 months. Damn right investment in Iran is a dangerous game.
     
  7. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

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    #1607 Mani, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    Or maybe because you, like most of the so-called experts and commentators who cover Iran, really have no clue about Iran or the Iranian capabilities in the medical field or any other field for that matter.

    344AE565-2C8F-427B-8482-4CA34635B411.jpeg
     
  8. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

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    #1608 Mani, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    I really don’t understand the American mindset. Even their so-called liberal elites who are suppose to be more intellectual and worldly, have an oversimplified worldview that underestimates other nations and their capabilities to a comical level. They just dismiss adversaries as Banana Republics. It’s almost impossible for them to comprehend that it’s possible somehow that Iran, among many other nations, could actually be managing the Covid outbreak better than the States.

    Iran has many problems, sure, the system can be authoritarian, sure, but nowhere in Iran even under such a flawed system, you will find scenes like this:

    So maybe, just maybe, you guys should to take a closer look at home and fix your own problems that are in front of your eyes, before lecturing other nations on how to be and how to manage their own affairs.
     
  9. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
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  10. +PL+

    +PL+ Member+

    Jun 22, 2015
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  11. +PL+

    +PL+ Member+

    Jun 22, 2015
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    #1611 +PL+, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    If you have money Iranian doctors are among the best in the region. Anyone from the region know that but if you have the money.

    The first tweet is from a person with a Persian last name "Nabi", certainly she likes to promote her husband or her country's healthcare system.

    Meanwhile in coronavirus pandemic, many medical workers and nurses have been fired by some clinics and hospitals in Iran because the employers (usually govt) don't want to pay them. Where is the money? Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Palestine, Swiss bank accounts? Would you like to elaborate about this part?

    Many Iranians are talented and smart in academic and technical fields, because of the mentality which was promoted and printed to Iranian psych during Pahlavi dynasty that if you study you will be successful and respected in society.

    Iranian people are like gems stock in a septic tank called Islamic republic. Remove the regime and Iranians will shine again.
     
  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Can we discuss this? Yes, I know about the 'brain drain' and how many of these medalists end up leaving Iran -- and how some of them end up being very opposed to the regime. (I also know of many who live in Iran, work in Iran, and have even donated their medals to thank Iran's Supreme Leader).

    These are very neat videos.




    In the physics and chemistry videos, Iran ranks even better. But in another message, I looked carefully at the medal counts for in the Math Olympiad HERE. I mentioned the following as what was striking about the issue to me:

    1- All of the countries in the Middle East, North Africa, and the Indian subcontinent, combined, have only 45 Gold medals compared to 45 Gold medals by Iran standing alone! That is because other than Turkey (19G), Israel (14G), India (12G), none of the others even have a single gold medal!

    2- In the rest of the developing world, outside of East Asia, in Latin America or Central America (here, counting Mexico which is part of N. America technically, as part of the gang), or Africa, you can't find too many countries which have earned a single gold medal. The exception seems to be Brazil with 10 Gold medals, Argentina with 5 Gold medals, and Mexico with 3. None of the rest seem to have earned a single Gold medal.

    3- Even in Western Europe, the only countries with more Gold medals than Iran are Germany (51) and the UK (48), with even France (24) trailing Iran. Other than Italy (15), most of the rest of the western European countries either don't have gold medals at all (e.g. Spain), or have no more than a handful.

    To be clear, I am not suggesting these medals show Iranians "are smarter" necessarily than many others. What I am suggesting, however, is that this (along with many other scientific achievements, including in the military sphere in Iran) occurred since the revolution. Why is that? I have my answer and I will provide it here if I see a genuine attempt to discuss the issue without trying to spin it to make other points.
     
  13. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
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    #1613 Mani, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    Deborah Britton-Nabi is as American as apple pie. She also has a masters in Middle East studies. So what if she has an Iranian husband? That’s relevant how? Unlike certain people here who have never been to Iran in their entire life, yet claim to know Iran, she actually lives in Iran and knows what she’s talking about.

    As for Iran before and after the revolution, here is a reliable source and here is a chart pictured below. The numbers speak for themselves.

    8A7F9F71-4FAA-4F3A-890A-2903B61B351E.png

    By the way, here is a documentary about Shah’s last diplomat and son-in-law Mr. Zahedi who we discussed on the previous page. He was with Shah until the last day of Shah’s life. They had no falling out, that’s just a lie. He was literally with Shah until the last moment. Apparently, making shit up is an old habit for some...



    Finally, if any of you is really interested to understand Iranian society and the problems within it, watch an Iranian movie that tackles social issues to get an unfiltered view of Iran. Don’t rely on the testimony of these so-called Iran experts or certain exiles who have never set a foot in Iran in their entire life and have no problem making stuff up to push their own political agendas. To see Iran and what the real problems in Iran are, I recommend this Iranian movie about corruption and vice in Iran:



    Or this Iranian movie which is critical of capital punishment Laws in Iran:

     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1614 Iranian Monitor, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    I wish more in the US, with a genuine interest in understanding Iran, would ignore those who neither live there nor have even visited the country in recent times, i.e. those who have never visited the country, or those who have been away from Iran too long to reflect anything but their political gripes and the images of their country they have picked up by the propaganda organs who have been trying to turn Iran into what would be now the next Syria.
    Iran's improvements on most of these areas are notable, but here I can accept that others in the developing world have also improved. Some even more than Iran. So, while these improvements (despite all that Iran has faced by the forces trying to unravel its society) are notable, they aren't without some precedent in some other countries even in our region. Some of these indexes simply reflect larger socio-economic issues and are affected by them and others are part of the progress that almost all countries have witnessed.

    What is really rather striking about Iran is in the videos I mentioned. In the achievements by Iranian students in academic Olympiads. By the things Iran has been able to do even with many restrictions (e.g., transfer of technology and capital) that makes those same things much easier elsewhere. In being among the top 20 (or much better) countries in the world in many scientific and technological fields. In being a much more self-sufficient country that many others which, with the slightest sneeze by those who control the levers over the world economic system, find their economies totally wrecked. While Iran has suffered economically from the US campaign of "maximum pressure", the situation in Iran isn't like in Venezuela whose economy has basically tumbled and been wrecked by even 'mild' sanctions that don't cut out Venezuela from practically every trade and commerce the way Iran is cut out. The impact on Iran has been more comparable to how some mere announcements and mild threats of sanctions against Turkey and nervous response to them impacted the value of the Turkish lira last year. I shudder to think what would happen to any of these economies (even the most developed in our region, such as the one in Turkey which is overall -- besides Iran -- the only one that really produces anything on its own) if the US put them through a fraction of the sanctions and rigors Iran is put through?
     
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  15. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
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    If anyone here is wondering, who some of these “Iranian exiles” are and what their real agenda is, this fully explains it:

     
  16. +PL+

    +PL+ Member+

    Jun 22, 2015
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    #1616 +PL+, May 7, 2020
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
    MEK are traitors and they are a hated tiny minority. They have no support among Iranians. Iranian current rulers are radical backward islamists (fundamentalist). MEK are radical Muslims plus militant Marxists. MEK helped radical fundamentalists and fanatic Muslims to take power in Iran. In less than 3 years fanatic Muslims kicked MEK (radical Muslims/ militant Marxists) out of power. They are both dangerous criminal organizations (Hezbollahi thugs and MEK traitors)

    Do you agree that both Khamenei and Maryam Rajavi are son/daughter of the b****? Do you support Khamenei? Do you support Rajavi?

    Please answer the quesions.

    Dominant majority of exiled Iranians are anti-Islamic republic of Iran.

    The dominant groups among Iranians outside Iran are nationalists, secular Democrats and monarchists.

    MEK are not secular, Democrat, or nationalist. They are radical Muslims and militant Marxists. It seems crazy and they are crazy. They are a cult as you mentioned. It is the only topic I can agree with you completely.
     
  17. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
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    #1617 Mani, May 8, 2020
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    Regimes have come and gone, but Iran has remained, for 2600 years. This is all about Iran as a “too big to be exploited” geo-political entity and her survival as a great nation and civilization. Anyone who thinks that the “regime change” echo chamber is even remotely about a better future for Iran or the well-being of Iranians or their democratic rights, is just a naive fool who has no clue whatsoever about the geo-political realities of the world.

     
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  18. +PL+

    +PL+ Member+

    Jun 22, 2015
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    #1618 +PL+, May 9, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    Whoever support the Islamic regime of Iran is a scum bag and filthy beast. People who think Islamic regime of Iran can be reformed, are either totally stupid, related to regime or paid by the unpopular regime.

    There are many reformist idiot mouth pieces of Islamic regime of Iran in European and North American media. Trita Parsi is one of them. There are few elements of this fellowship among BBC Persian reporters as well. I can name at least 20 of these people who just promote the Islamic republic to change Western public oponion with cherry picked items and fabricated lies. If regime crumbles, these lowly individuals lose their sources of income; Since some of them are well-known, they can not set their foot in Iran once again.
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
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    The only people who need to 'cherry pick' are those who can't handle the facts.

    If Iran is to be judged by the matrix of its relationship/animosity when it comes to the US/Israel, it would rank very poor. Iran is one of the few countries in the world with no diplomatic relations with the US, never mind Israel. It has been involved in one form or another proxy war or low-level (or even higher level) war waged between the two sides since the Iranian revolution.

    Those who want to judge Iran based on the portraits from Iran that its enemies like to paint, can have their field day using the lies and falsehoods which its enemies promote -- and which these days are often linked to sources affiliated to the MEK (aka "National Council of Resistance"). The fact that they don't want to associate themselves with the MEK, rightly slamming the group for its ideology, is of no help to them when they ignore its biggest fault that makes it so hated in Iran: that fault is its treachery -- the fact that it work with Iran's enemies (before, with Saddam, now their newest patrons the neocons and the Israelis), engaging in acts of assassination, espionage, sabotage, to go along with the propaganda and lies they spew. It doesn't matter what 'label' you take for yourself: if you follow the same tactics and path, you will be seen in Iran in the same light.

    Otherwise, the facts about Iran are pretty clear. Despite decades of policies aimed at weakening and damaging Iran, using measures against it which are unprecedented in many ways, from any angle you look -- economic, political, educational, health and life expectancy, military, geopolitical influence -- Iran is one of the more successful of the countries in the developing world (among those which are real countries and have at least 10-20 million people, not vacation resorts and such). A few have done better than Iran on some measures, most of them by latching to the US and taking the treats the US can offer to those who act like well behaved pets, but many more have done worse.

    Here is a statistic that isn't about 'cherry picking' I would hope, but since I learned on this page that the U. Maryland which has been conducting polls of Iranian public opinion for over a decade now, is actually doing propaganda for Iran, I guess I shouldn't be surprised if the CIA is seen as an Iranian propaganda outfit as well! And, of course, since I had invited people to simply take tour of Iran through Google Earth- Iran, I guess Google and the satellite imagery that it uses, is also ultimately controlled by Iran too:)
    -------------------------------------------------

    Here are the estimates of per capita income by the CIA. The top of the list are all a bunch of mini-states. If Iran is to be turned into the next Syria because its government has been doing so poorly on the economic front, I wonder what should be done with some others who don't rank that highly either!

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/211rank.html
    United States is 19th on the list. Germany is 27th. Japan 42nd.

    For a small state, and compared to many others on that ilk, Israel doesn't rank that highly at 55th.

    Then you have the countries which are closer to Iran on a per capita basis:
    And those right above and below it:
    Below Iran you can find countries like:

    And many more countries still.
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
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    #1620 Iranian Monitor, May 9, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    How about life expectancy? Does Iran, whose current life expectancy is 77.33 (only marginally lower than even the US, where life expectancy is 79.11), and which ranks 69th in the world, is doing so poorly on this issue or any other health related index, to need to be convulsed into mayhem and revolution to fix things for its people?

    Now, I admit that Iran ranks relatively poorly on the "Happiness Index": 117th, which makes it rank below even some countries in sub-Saharan Africa. But here is the deal: as poorly Iran ranks in this index, it still ranks above those other countries which have been "liberated" by the US or which the US has sought to liberate. Iraq ranks #126 in the same index. Syria ranks #149. Afghanistan #154. Even those who have been more gently liberated, using a military coup from within, such as Egypt (137), don't rank that highly and still below Iran. Of course, and to be sure, happiness is ultimately a subjective thing: if the people in Somalia are happier than the people in Armenia, or the people in Pakistan are happier than not just the people in Iran but also those in Russia or Greece, that doesn't mean most of these people would like to switch places with them either:)

    But I admit this much: when you have the world's top superpower "out to get you", and to hurt your economy, and rip your country into pieces and throw it in chaos, that doesn't make many people necessarily hopeful when they look into the future! But what is there to do? Help the US succeed in turning Iran into the next Syria? Is that answer for Iran?

    Otherwise, please let me know who has stopped the myriad of satellite television stations, social media outlets, and the whole range of media beaming messages into Iran, from finding some figure that the Iranian people can or have been willing to unify behind and decide is who they want to follow instead? Is there ANY figure outside of Iran busy working these messages that can find a single, scientifically conducted, poll (never mind U. Maryland -- they aren't the only ones polling public opinion in Iran) to show them to have more than marginal support in Iran? The neocon, pro Israeli funded, Foundation of the Defense of Democracies, had conducted numerous polls of public opinion in Iran and so have similar organs. Ask them to release their poll figures! If they aren't releasing them, isn't obvious why? Isn't obvious they don't like the answer they have found?
     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    In the meantime, here are some people who actually did work for the "regime" -- and gave up their lives volunteering to fight for what they considered to be the right cause, in places like Syria and Iraq. And this is how people in Iran (at least many millions in the country who bothered to show up for their funerals, never mind many millions more who didn't even if they too were disgusted by what had happened) reacted when they heard news of their deaths.

    Before General Soleimani's assassination, the funeral for Mohsen Hojaji -- the 25 year old Iranian soldier who volunteered to go to Syria and was beheaded by ISIS:


    These days we read about reports about Israel striking Iranian targets in Syria, although usually those slain aren't any 'actual Iranians'. Since the end of the Syrian civil war, most of them have returned home, with Israel itself acknowledging that since 2018, the number of 'actual Iranians' serving in Syria in any capacity is under 1,000. But that doesn't mean there weren't quite a few 'actual Iranians' who made the ultimate sacrifice fighting against Iran's enemies in Syria alone. Or that their sacrifices aren't appreciated by most Iranians, save the few who constantly listen to comparatively spoiled kids and adults who haven't sacrificed anything sit in judgment of those who have sacrificed everything for their country and their ideals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
    Here are some of them:
    Hassan Shateri
    [​IMG]
    There were other senior commanders killed in similar fashion. In fact, until 2016, when Iran began deploying troops to Syria, most of Iran's casualties were high ranking officers serving in advisory role alongside Syrian military and Syrian allied forces drawn from Syria's Allawite community. These may have been killed by ISIS and related groups, but targeted based on information provided by those who were supposedly in Syria to help "moderate rebels" bring democracy to Syria against an (elected) "dictator", Bashar Assad. (Never mind in the forefront of that fight were some of the actual dictators in the region who have never known an election in their lives).

    From 2016 until 2018, Iran began getting more directly involved, sending some troops (including special forces and paratroopers) to help the fighting.

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/iranian-special-forces-deploy-syria/
    Iranian Special Forces deploy to Syria

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And, as a result, younger Iranians like Mohsen Hojaji and many others, ended up sacrificing their lives fighting ISIS and the many different brands and groups used to perpetuate mayhem and instability in Syria.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
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    For the first time in a long time, Iran is actually losing the geopolitical fights and wars against its enemies. It is losing Iraq to the Saudis and Americans. It is losing Syria to the Russians. And it is losing through capitulation -- which is what I find unacceptable given the sacrifices that so many of Iran's truly best and brightest (some of Iran's most incorruptible figures, like the ones I mentioned in my last post) have paid by those who had promised that there would be no capitulation.

    A tweet yesterday by Iran's Supreme Leader, regarding a Shia imam and the attempt what is historically better remembered as conciliation and capitulation to paint it as bravery instead, suggests that further capitulations are to be expected from Iran.

    My own take: If Iran's Supreme Leader wants to capitulate, my view is that he should first resign. His legitimacy and authority aren't based on capitulation but on resistance. The Assembly of Experts can then choose another Supreme Leader instead. For me, the difficult choice between resistance and capitulation should, ultimately, be one that the people in Iran make. And I will support their decision whatever it might be. But I won't support capitulation by people whose entire careers were built on the promise and slogans of resistance.

    Incidentally, I never supported the JCPOA either, warning even at the time, it would turn out to be a fraud. And I am equally convinced that capitulation is not what is going to save Iran from the plans against it. Indeed, IMO, it will only hasten the success of those plans.
     
  23. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
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    #1623 Mani, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
    Khamanei should indeed resign and pave the way for an orderly transition of power to a Leadership Council as is permitted under the current constitution. But problem with the system in Iran is not the person of Khamanei, it’s the systematic corruption at all levels.

    The vast majority of Reformists are corrupt, as are many of the Conservatives who are not only corrupt, but are also obsessed with social issues that alienate the young people and creat an unhappy environment that leads to foreign exploitation of social causes.

    What Iran needs, is a third path, a courageous patriotic political figure from within who can actually liberalize on social issues and stand up to religious hardliners, but someone who isn’t soft on Iran’s sovereign rights, like the Reformists are.
     
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
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    I generally agree with you, except my view on how/what Ayatollah Khamenei should do depends on the course he is interested in taking. More on that latter. But with regard to corruption, which is rather endemic and a huge problem that touches the actions taken by many in Iran's government, let me say the following:

    The reformist movement in Iran started with bright slogans which I fully endorsed, but facing the so-called 'hardliners' which had more power and money than they did, they not only found the inevitable corrupt figures that you find in most places where people have access to wealth of a nation, but began building very corrupt links with foreign multi-national companies to develop a slush fund used to basically divide favor and funds to rather questionable figures in many of Iran's key industries and important government ministries. It is a long story, but we ended up with a reformist movement that was basically working on behalf of these foreign (mostly European) companies and not the people who were electing them. They still espoused some of the slogans that many young (and even older) Iranians are attracted to, but quite often the positions they would take was based on what they were told the mafia gangs which financed their campaigns and rise to positions of influence in Iran's government and bureaucracy were interested in hearing.

    On the other hand, while there are quite a few incorruptible, honest, brave and decent people who work in the various organs ultimately connected to Iran's revolutionary guards, the latter (and, even worse, many people who are within the 'principalist' ranks without such connections) also have many corrupt figures of their own. People who have amassed great wealth and are more interested in their wealth than anything else. The only sliver lining in their corruption (and it is terrible regardless as it undermines a country's work ethic, social cohesion and value system) is that many (but not all) of their figures have to invest their money in Iran, as opposed to sending it to foreign bank accounts which can be closed and confiscated. That is not entirely a distinction without a difference, since ultimately at some levels (but not all, as corruption entails other significant costs) it often doesn't matter if a project is financed by the government and managed poorly by it, or whether it financed by ill gotten corrupt gains by these individuals but managed better.

    Then you have the traditional conservative camp, which itself is divided between those whose corruption is more tolerable and follows the traditional patterns of corruption in Iran -- and the long list of 'aghazadeh' and others connected to them (many -- not all -- also within the reformist camp but in the same category) whose corruption takes obscene proportions and manifests itself in obscene ways. Whether these traditional conservatives and their kids have suddenly become "reformers", or they are still traditional conservatives, I don't like them on any level.

    Ayatollah Khamenei oversees this corrupt system, is aware of it, isn't willing to confront it given the other issues on his plate which appear more urgent (US/israeli/Saudi threats etc), but he is personally not materialistic or corrupt. Even an unflattering portrait of him for TIME (see HERE) by Karim Sadjadpour (who I disagree with on a lot) couldn't dispute that fact. And there are still, in this maze of corruption and more, quite a few of the kind of people I mentioned: decent, committed, brave and rather incorruptible. While many of them may have religious beliefs that I don;t share, they -- like General Soleimani -- are often quite tolerant social issues too.

    The crux of the problem for Iran, ultimately, is this: the neocons in the US/Israel are indeed (IMO) looking to unravel Iran (regardless of its leadership or anything else) for a host of reasons I can expand on some other time. Any compromise with them simply strengthens their ability to turn Iran into the next Syria. But the US is the world top superpower and while Iran has the means to hurt the US in case of war, ultimately everyone realizes that Iran has much more to lose in a war than the US. It then becomes a game of chicken' where any miscalculation can lead to war neither side truly wants, while on the other end, any sign of weakness by Iran can push the envelope to the point where you will both end up with the war you didn't want and with even less ability to wage it.

    From my vantage point, Ayatollah Khamenei should take the risks of standing firm on the road which Iran took a long time ago and can't reverse now, as he has no better cards to play. But if he begins to show sign of weakness, then he should definitely resign. Even if Iran is going to go down the road of capitulation and compromise, the only ones who might have some chance of avoiding the worse outcomes from that course are others. Not those who have been leading the resistance. In those circumstances, if Ayatollah Khamenei is indeed considering capitulation and compromise again, I agree: he should resign.
     
  25. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Iran has had another tragic incident, this time a friendly fire incident involving a NOOR anti-ship missile from the Iranian frigate Jamaran in drills, which apparently hit the navy logistical ship Konarak which apparently was in the same area. 19 sailors have died, 15 injured, as a result of the incident which is being investigated. While friendly fire incidents are not unique to Iran, and indeed there are more such incidents in the US and elsewhere than the two some media (and "Iranian" opposition sources) like to highlight when it comes to Iran, this tragedy offers another chance for these outlets to do their usual thing. Especially since their attempts to use the Covid-19 pandemic backfired after the US and most western countries began to experience an even greater toll from the pandemic than Iran.

    Anyway, my condolences to the families of the sailors killed and injured from this tragic friendly fire incident.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/11/middleeast/iran-navy-deaths-intl/index.html
    Iran naval exercise accident kills 19 sailors
     

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