Pre-match: The inevitable war with Iran

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Q*bert Jones III, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Remind me where the shelters where for the people of Gaza? Or when Israel is bombing its neoghbors? Are those women and children less equal than Israelis? Like bro they are bombing people without shelter and you say aww but poor them. They extended a war led by a war criminal and now the people have to hide. The people leading Israel, Hamas and Hezvollah care more about their pride and ideology than the people in their care. I don't know how we change that but the only people i will ever feel sorry for are the Palestinians, everyone else needs to have a hard think about the status of things.
     
  2. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #3427 teammellieIRANfan, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    Irans strategy and doctrine has been changed since then. After that conflict and then a couple of decades later with the overthrow of Saddam Hussein with such ease, the IRGC realise they can not compete with US/NATO conventionally, and has adopted a wide variety of assymetrical means and tactics. Including naval warfare.

    I believe Iran can shut down the strait of Hormuz. A part of this is also the fact that the US and Britain have not really been able to defeat the Houthis in the red sea, those attacks keep coming. Off course the red sea is not entirely shut, but they have still been relatively effective. Now obviously Iran is on a much different order of magnitude than the Houthis.

    Not gonna go into great detail, but Im gonna refer you to the Millennium challenge 2002.
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3428 Robert Borden, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    They haven't though, correct?

    Hitting nuclear facilities and/or whatever they've been doing in Gaza and Beirut. That would not go unanswered and you'd have to expect a proportional response. With Iran proving that they can hit anywhere in Israel, it would be unwise to cross those lines - if Netanyahu actually cares about the well-being of his people

    Just like any other nations who are being told by the west what they should or shouldn't be doing. The difference is that a different set of standards is being applied by the West to Israel which affects their international support. This new multipolar world means that more nations will be vocal about this situation (as we've seen at the ICJ and UN) and increasingly will feel empowered to act - theses are dangerous times for Israel to be multiplying their enemies.

    The interest of the many (Israelis) should weight more than the interest of the few (Netanyahu's government and political survival)

    Perhaps the Netanyahu regime should start taking decisions that are in their best interest, not only his own. While Iran did fire those rockets, you can't fully ignore the decisions that led to this and the motivations behind them.

    No - is killing tens of thousands of Palestinian women & children while levelling both Gaza and residential areas of Beirut supposed to be normal in contrast? That's the double standard that the rest of the world has grown tired of, they don't believe in Israel "exceptionalism"

    Iran retaliated and if the damage was as insignificant as people are trying to imply - it's not worth escalating at this point. Expecting Iran to not retaliate is unrealistic. However, Netanyahu "wants" that war and wants the Americans to get dragged into this - his decision making has little to do with what's best for his people.
     
  4. If that's been a success, how come the Houthi manage to chase ships towards Cape Good Hope?
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this the longest pre-match thread ever?
     
  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Who can also get their hands on advance tech... Times have indeed changed
     
  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Because of "escalation management"
     
  8. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. There is literally nothing aside from diplomatic courtesy that will ever stop the US military from utilizing it's in theatre military forces as it sees fit, regardless of what sabre rattling is issued for plausible deniability for domestic political purposes.

    2. Aircraft Carriers / Submarine Launch Cruise Missiles / Drones / Intercontinental Bombers, supported by airborne refueling, and their standoff missiles, can touch every square centimeter of Iran, should the US military wish to extend that diplomatic courtesy, noted above.
    If anything, the House of Saud and the Gulf Emiratis stand to gain from a humbled Iran
     
    stanger repped this.
  9. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This, by and large

    The various and sundry Middle Eastern conflicts have been a part of the American political consciousness since the 1960's and the most impact it has had on the US has been the occassional terrorist incident and price of oil - deep down, our callousness towards the Palestinians in Gaza is the result of this. We will simply deal, politically and economically, with the victors, if any...
     
    Cascarino's Pizzeria repped this.
  10. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    #3435 yasik19, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    For one, why are we talking about Gaza on this thread? As you know, we have a thread for that. Two, is the fact that Gazans don't have a shelter a fault of who exactly? Last I checked, there was enough cement and labor force to build thousands of miles of tunnels. Three, what does Iran bombing Israel has to do with Gaza? You know perfectly well this is not why Iran did this and that Iran could care less about Gaza or Palestinians. Four, extended a war? Come on, you know better than that. Hezbollah started (re-started) their indiscriminate bombings on October 8th.

    I don't know why it its soooooooo damn hard to state Iran did something that no country would be willing to tolerate and simply once again, b/c Israel is able to defend itself, it gets swept under the carpet like a no big deal. It was a big deal, it was a HUGE ********ing deal.
     
    Moishe repped this.
  11. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Houthi attacks on commercial vessels are a relatively new thing but I expect it won’t last long. Houthis are another Iran proxy militia, their ability to keep this up seems unlikely. These militias seem hell bent on picking a fight but they are defenseless against aerial assault so it’s senseless and futile. Unfortunately lots of innocents are getting killed as well and the people in Yemen, Lebanon, Gaza, WB are suffering terribly.
     
  12. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    #3437 yasik19, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    Why does that matter? If I shot you in the head and missed, am I less guilty?


    Are you IM in disguise? Are you getting hard just thinking about Iranian response. You already established you know next to nothing about military, air defenses, or mostly anything about the Middle East, so why are you making crazy assumptions about what Israel can or will do? Iran didn't prove anything, except that they are ruled by crazy and despicable regime, who do not care at all about their people.

    Again, stop talking about Bibi. Nobody here is defending him. But for some inexplicable reason, you can't utter words about Iran and state plainly and clearly that they have crossed some serious red lines.

    See the other thread.

    Again, this insane and extremely flawed logic about damage is why Israel is going to do what it thinks it needs to protect its civilians. You don't get to launch hundreds of missiles and rely on your enemy to shoot those down to then claim some moral superiority. And your spiel about Bibi wants this or that while ignoring what Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah has been doing is very telling. Not surprising, but just paints a very clear picture about your character. If you are so concerned about Bibi "wanting" to start a war, perhaps you should spend a little more time focusing your criticism on other actors in the ME who have been trying to eradicate Israel for decades.
     
    Moishe repped this.
  13. Iirc the houthi fouhgt/are still fighting? a ten year war with the Jemen government AND Saoudi- Arabia with all their by the USA supplied tech superior stuff than the houthi have and yet they're launching stuff hiiting Israel etc.
    I don't think people who fought superior armed and vastly bigger enemies and defeat them are easy pickings.
    The Brits and Americans were bragging about how they bombed away 25-30% of the houthi stock and launch capabilities and yet after that here we are, ships going around Africa instead of heading to Suez.
    We havenot heared of a houthi ship attack for some time now, but that might be the case of no ships to target.
     
  14. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Two Israeli soldiers have been killed from a drone strike from Iraq. Iraq front is increasingly being more involved. This is bad.

    If I have to guess, Im thinking Israel will strike on October 7th (for symbolism), and strike targets in Iraq on the way to striking targets in Iran.
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I get your opinion but there has been precedents before where a nation had denied the U.S. access to its bases for launching military operations - thinking about Turkey, a NATO ally, during the war against Iraq which forced the U.S. to adjust its logistics. Not saying that the nations from the article would do the same but it's not impossible either.
     
  16. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    and it could be the incoming they’re taking.
     
  17. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
     
    Quakes05 repped this.
  18. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Things don't happen in a vacuum. You think Israeli aggression in the middle east and bombings killed leaders of freedom fighting organizations (as they are seen) is just to be ignored. You punch a man's cousin in LA then wonder why the man sees you in NY and wants to fight.

    I don't know now why it's so damn hard for you to just say Isrsel deserves carte blanche and actions never to be questioned or judged.
     
  19. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    But the argument works both ways. For every Israel aggression, I can point to the cause of that aggression. And since you brought up an example above of a "reason to fight", do you also not think the response deserves to be in kind? I don't buy this logic, but that's the kind of stuff that Israeli haters use to question proportionality. Surely killing one or a half a dozen individuals (assuming we're talking about Iran itself) would not merit two separate multi-hundred missile attacks? Like I said, I don't believe in this logic, but if you do, then you can't complain about what Israel did in Gaza after 1200+ Israelies were murdered in cold blood. I'm just trying to understand why the argument people use only apply to criticize Israel and never the other way around.

    And I have been perfectly ok with fair criticism of both Israeli government and the actions of Israel. I just detest when people continue to make Israel the scapegoat for all of the problems in the ME while ignoring a myriad of other actors and factors.
     
    Moishe repped this.
  20. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And France before that on overflight on the Lockerbie Revenge Bombing

    Public sabre rattling in an age with combined arms capablility is essentially meaningless
     
  21. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3446 Robert Borden, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    Why do you want an escalation this bad? I'm of the opinion that this should be the end of it before it gets out of hand and if Iran attacks Israel again then there should be consequences. You're the one getting hard at the prospect of an Israeli retaliation that you know fully well will lead to further escalation.

    You're trying to paint me as this "pro-Iran" extremist when even the White House doesn't think hitting oil fields and nuclear facilities is a good idea. Biden is pro-Iranian of course;)
    Biden suggests Israel not hit Iran oil fields, after opposing strike on nuke facilities
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-october-04-2024/

    Since you obviously could care less about Palestinians and Lebanese, I doubt that you care about the day to day of Iranians under this (and I agree here) brutal regime.

    Red lines... pre or since October 7th? Since my comments are in relation to the attack on October 7th, what red lines have they crossed since then? See below unless you want to call Blinken "pro-Iran"

    Blinken says no 'direct evidence' that Iran was involved in the Hamas attack on Israel
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...n-was-involved-hamas-attack-israel-rcna120110
    • When it comes to this specific attack, in this moment, we don’t have direct evidence that Iran was involved in the attack, either in planning it or carrying it out."
    Bibi being the leader of his country, it's legitimate to question if the decisions he's taking escalating the situation with Iran is truly for the benefit of his people or his own...

    Using your own logic, are you ready to admit that Bibi's regime "purposely" wanted to kill as many Palestinians in the process of defeating Hamas?

    No one's innocent here, not Iran, Hamas or Hezbollah (I will say that bombing Israel the next day after Oct. 7 was unbelievably stupid). Agree to disagree for some of this stuff but I hope you understand that the narrative that "nothing is ever Israel's fault" isn't working anymore around the globe which leads to more scrutiny in the decision making by it leadership. Forget about me - I don't matter but read the global room, even traditional allies of Israel and huge members of the West finds it increasingly harder to support Israel unconditionally and that's worth mentioning as well and cannot be denied
     
    Deadtigers repped this.
  22. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I haven't checked the USMNT World Cup 2026 pre-match thread.

    Anyway, Iran invented pre-match and all other types of threads.
     
  23. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    They are not the cause of all the problems but they have an apartheid state that got South Africa otriscized from the world but you can't do that Israel. We are told they are the good guys but then violate the rights and even kill dual Nats but the western nation that the citizen belonged to has no recourse. However, if that dual Nat was killed by another nation, there is a serious problem. You think Japan can take out a Comercial building like how the the one that CNN was stationed in, because the Chinese are using it for spying on Japan? Could France blow up a market place Beliguim cause it is the headquarters of an anti French terrorist outfit and the just tell the Belgians that's what you get?

    The good guys can be as bad and dirty as they want and jt is wrong to ever call them out for it.
     
  24. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Gas is finally under $3 a gallon. Bibi better not F that up In his quest for eternal war! :mad:
     
  25. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    #3450 Quakes05, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    There's a lot to consider, quite a few Iranian missiles landed...

    Satellite images show dozens of Iranian missiles struck near Israeli air base : NPR

    ...Iran almost surely could land a much greater punch if it wanted, Israel/IDF is already stretched thin with fighting in Lebanon and Gaza (in particular), and to a lesser degree in the WB and Yemen. How much of a response will it take to trigger a massive Iranian retaliatory strike? How many fronts does Bibi want to open up, at once?

    Israel can take on all these proxies and it seems unlikely Iran will strike again (unless it's in response to an Israeli attack inside Iran), no Israeli was killed in the Iranian missile strike and Israel's fighting capability was not reduced in any way...

    ...Israel would look like it was exercising some restraint by not launching a massive counter. Of course, there's the rhetoric (Israel has been telegraphing its intention to respond, massively, for days), and the face-saving stuff.

    But, on balance, it might make more sense for Israel not to attack Iran, at this stage.

    So, the longer the pre-match, the better.
     

Share This Page