Pre-match: The inevitable war with Iran

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Q*bert Jones III, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
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    I have been posting in here since 2008 and have never used a sock.

    You need help.
     
  2. Nederlands fregat mag ondanks beste rakettenradar ter wereld niets doen tegen Iran
    [​IMG]De Telegraaf|3 days ago
    Het Nederlandse fregat Zr. Ms. Tromp, met de beste rakettenradar ter wereld aan boord, deed dit weekend niet mee toen de Iraanse raketten opstegen. Waarom moest onze marine op de handen blijven zitten

    Dutch frigate is not allowed to do anything against Iran despite the best missile radar in the world
    De Telegraaf|3 days ago The Dutch frigate HNLMS Tromp, with the best missile radar in the world on board, did not participate this weekend when the Iranian missiles took off. Why did our navy have to sit on its hands?


    We got the best radarsystem in the world, a Dutch/French developed system GM 200 MM/C by Thales Hengelo in the Netherlands, together with the technical university in Twente.
    Might be because it's assigned to fight Houthi projectiles, but still...
     
  3. How do they do those shows with hundreds of lit drones in the night performing dazzling looking choreographies?
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
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    I've always thought of you as a Batman villain too :D
     
  5. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    So you basically didn't just move the goal post, you removed it all together. Well done.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
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    let’s be honest you aren’t doing research. You scour the internet to post links to other people’s research.

    Unless you are literally skulking about Israel inspecting its bases. Which you aren’t.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    I don't know but i presume there is differences trying to communicate with drones 20km away in battle conditions compared to a lightshow. One of the issues they talked about is propagation of the signal from the drone operator to the drone is essentially line of sight. One fix to that is a relay drone.

    But this is why you don't see 20 FPVs attacking a tank at once - they come one after the other
     
  8. This could be a game changing development if solved.
    For instance that new Dutch/French radar system has incredible specs and when you can apply those on on the ground targets with swarm drones, you really don't want to be on that battle ground.
     
  9. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
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    #3009 mebeSajid, Apr 18, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
    I'm sure they have drones that use cellular transmitters that don't require line of sight and/or spread spectrum designs that are less susceptible to jamming.

    GPS jamming is a different animal - not sure how you get around that.
     
  10. There are camera drones that can search and track objects/animals/persons by recognition software. Once they locked on a "target" they find it back, even after having lost sight by the target disappearing under trees.
    Incorporating such technology does away with the need for gps, unless I'm overlooking something.
     
    mebeSajid repped this.
  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
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    Indeed. I have two that do this :).

    Possibly. But I only know about consumer drones that cost low four figures and are designed to go no more than 5 miles away.
     
  12. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
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    Say you launch thousands of drones that are attempting to swarm a target. Each individual drone doesn't need to be engaged, they can be taken out with a burst from an EMP device. The US, and I'm sure other fighting forces, are developing defensive weapons that do exactly that.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    There are of course different ones but one large category is basically just field modded mavics

    And cost is a huge factor with fpvs. at some point if the unit price is too high, they get cost inefficient compared to arty so role matters

    I'd highly recommend the latest WOTR podcast on this which is based on field reporting out of Ukraine

    tldr - the reason you don't see drone swarms is because of the radio/signals side.
     
  14. I've been told last year you can't "aim" an emp burst, so unless you're own equipments is without transistors, you not only take out the drones, but your own equipment too.
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
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    A big part of the discussion is that the drones are operated by someone who is a couple of km behind his own lines, and then the drone at as much as 10-20 km range - it gets challenging for radio really quickly due to terrain
     
  16. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

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    I'm sure people much smarter than me are exploring how it can be done.
     
  17. Yeah, but even smart people can't bend the laws of physics.
     
  18. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    “Research” does not mean “field investigation”. If I look through archives (physical or digital) to find out something about a topic, that’s research. If I look through a library (physical or virtual) to see what other commentators have to say about a topic, that’s research.

    I get that you don’t like IM but arguing for arguments sake is silly. He is one of the few people here who have an actual first hand insight into Iran.
     
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  19. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    The U.K. is developing laser weapons to deal with drones, they say they should have them by 2027:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68795603
     
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  20. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If that's the case, you can pre-program routes into unmodded mavics, making a real-time radio link less vital.

    Depending on how the mods are done (i.e., no battery mods?), long-range comms may not be all that important anyway because those things have a flight time of 30 minutes. Anything beyond 5km and you're probably not planning to have them return.

    Though if you're using them for recon, then the radio link becomes vital.
     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #3021 Iranian Monitor, Apr 18, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
    The discussion about EMP weapons worries me a bit as some pro Israeli outlets are pushing for Israel to conduct a nuclear EMP attack on Iran to reestablish deterrence. On the other hand, Iran may have an EMP capability as well, although these kind reports in tabloids such as the Daily Mail are usually sensationalist nonsense. That said, I hope Israel doesn't even joke, whisper, or suggest any more than it has about nukes or EMPs as I am sure if they do, they will end up being obliterated by Iran one way or another. No matter the cost to Iran.

    p.s.
    ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE WEAPONS (EMPs) Electromagnetic pulse weapons (EMPs) use light, lasers, invisible microwaves and electromagnetic energy to cut off electricity - and experts claim Iran has EMPs in their arsenal. The US military warned in 2018 that Iran was developing such arms and the deadly consequences they could have if used, estimating that an EMP attack on American soil could kill millions in the utter chaos they would create.
     
  22. From what I've read about emp as a weapon, but I'm not an expert, far from that, to cause that kind of havoc, the only "device" capable of that is a nuclear detonation.
    I don't think much of Iran as a state is left over, after they pulled a stunt like that.
    Anyway, to be effective the nuke Israel would use according to several sources need to be high above earth, but with the catch it spreads over an area that also includes Israel.
    Lower than that you need a number of nukes, which in fact means you nuked Iran and the respons will be without a doubt with all gloves off.
     
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Unlike the conventional capabilities of both Iran and Israel, which I have followed very closely the past couple of decades, I must admit my knowledge and familiarity with these issues is extremely limited. But I do know that "EMP warriors" sometimes publish pieces where they claim certain satellite launchers used by Iran can also be used in an EMP attack. see for instance:
    https://securethegrid.com/did-iran-just-demonstrate-they-can-take-down-the-united-states/
    Did Iran just demonstrate they can take down the United States?
    [​IMG]

    see also

    According to Ambassador R. James Woolsey (former Director of Central Intelligence), Dr. William Graham (former EMP Commission chairman and White House science Advisor to President Reagan), Ambassador Henry Cooper (former director of the Strategic Defense Initiative), and Fritz Ermarth (former National Security adviser to President Reagan and chairman of the National Intelligence Council):

    “We assess, from U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency reports and other sources, that Iran probably already has nuclear weapons. Over 13 years ago, prior to 2003, Iran was manufacturing nuclear-weapon components, like bridge-wire detonators and neutron initiators, performing non-fissile explosive experiments of an implosion nuclear device, and working on the design of a nuclear warhead for the Shahab-III missile.”
    ...
    Ironically, while electric power lobbyists resist EMP protection of the U.S. grid, five years ago Iranian press reported Tehran is violating international sanctions and going full bore to protect itself from nuclear EMP attack. The article “Iran Builds EMP Filter For First Time,” Mehr News Agency June 13, 2015, depicts a satellite making an EMP attack.
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
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    Oh no. I'm scared.
     
  25. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I wouldn't give credence to these articles. Until Iran says is otherwise, its policy is against developing nuclear weapons. But, at the same time, those who like to pretend that Iran will need 6 months to 2 years to weaponize enriched uranium for a nuclear warhead are almost certainly wrong. I am confident that all work and components for weaponization have already been carried out by Iran and within a couple of weeks of deciding to develop a nuclear arsenal, Iran will have a dozen or more such weapons. (The IAEA estimate of Iran being able to enrich enough uranium for only 3 weapons in a couple of weeks is based on static estimates and inaccurate IMO).
     

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