NSR: The History Thread

Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by Zenit, May 20, 2010.

  1. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The debate essentially went like this...


    Today is the day of liberation of Kharkov (or however it should be translated).

    My wife said something like this, "well I'm happy that the Soviets liberated Kharkov, because I wouldn't be here otherwise."

    Host: "Yeah, but Stalin still killed more people than Hitler ever did."

    I nod in acknowledgment. "That is in fact true, but...."

    Host: "We can't really know what would have happened had Hitler and the Germans won. But we do know that Stalin killed xxxxxx people and did xxxxxxxx."

    Me, "well we can....."

    Host, "Stalin probably killed more Ukrainians than Hitler ever did. They say 10 million died in the famine and then he certainly killed even more in the purges. Hitler never came close to that."

    Me, "yes but Hitler had a much shorter time period, roughly 3 years from 1941 to 1944 when Ukraine was liberated. German occupation was absolutely devastating...."

    Host: "yeah but we can't know what Hitler would have done with Ukraine."

    Me, "well actually we have a fairly good idea what the Nazis would have done to Ukraine. First the Jews, all gone. Anybody with questionable Jewish heritage, gone. Any Slavic intellectuals, gone. You wear glasses, you're dead. The rest of the Slavs, well they'll make good slave labor until they die from overexuastion. The rest will be deported, if not murdered, beyond the Urals and all your property and land confiscated. You are officially subhuman beings, not worthy of walking the earth, at best you will be slaves. At worst, mechanically murdered. With Stalin, you had a chance, with Stalin, you are still alive today. With Hitler, you wouldn't be, and it's been well documented."

    Host: "I don't know about that....." proceeds to change the subject.
     
  2. Dimuha

    Dimuha Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    northpole Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    Say what?
     
  3. Dimuha

    Dimuha Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    northpole Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    One thing's for sure, the Jews and Poles would have been FAR better off under Ukrainian Nationalist rule than Soviet.
     
  4. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadezhda_Alliluyeva

    to quote someone on this board, "say what?"
     
  5. Dimuha

    Dimuha Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    northpole Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
  6. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I would say you're 100% wrong. let me, for example, just give you the words to UPA's (Ukrainska Povstanska Armiya) marching song:

    "Push the Poles beyong San [river San - G74], Russians - beyond the Don, and the Jews - into the grave"
     
  7. Dimuha

    Dimuha Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    northpole Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    I know dude, I wasn't being serious. Sorry for the poor sarcasm.
     
  8. Dimuha

    Dimuha Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    northpole Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    Hey LokoZee, wuld it be correct to say that the so called Poles in Lithuania are in fact of Belarussian/Ruthenian ancestry like the ones in Belarus?
     
  9. LokomotivZee

    LokomotivZee Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    KC
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hm. I honestly don't know, but I doubt it. The parts of The Commonwealth that were ethnically Belarussian and Ruthenian have not been part of Lithuania since the partitions.

    Many Polish families would have relocated to Lithuania during The Commonwealth era.
     
  10. Dimuha

    Dimuha Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    northpole Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    I think it has everything to do with Polonization. From what I've read the so called Poles in Lithuania spoke a dialect of Belarusian and are Polonized (Roman Catholic) like the Poles of Belarus.

    Anyway, thanks for your reply.
     
  11. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://dobbs.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/11/17/can_individuals_have_an_impact



     
  12. Drake44444

    Drake44444 Member

    Jul 5, 2008
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/George-F-Kennan-American-Life/dp/1594203121/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305855160&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: George F. Kennan: An American Life (9781594203121): John Lewis Gaddis: Books[/ame]

    George Kennan's long awaited biography is out, my copy should arrive today. Kennan was one of the prime builders of both the Marshall Plan and US post-war policy towards the Soviet Union, one of the most influential diplomats in US history. Very much looking forward to starting this on what looks to be a snowy weekend.
     
  14. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Didn't Ukrainian nationalists collaborate with the nazi occupiers to kill off the Jews and fight the polish resistance as well as kill innocent poles in Kresy.
     
  15. Dmitriy

    Dmitriy Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    It was sarcasm.
     

Share This Page