Van Basten was great at Euro 88, agreed. However, his rather unconvincing strike rate of 24 goals in 58 matches for the Netherlands and his disappointing play at the WC 1990 are points against him. When Van Basten had the opportunity to justify his status on the world stage he simply didn't perform well enough -- and certainly not as well as others like Mueller and Ronaldo. I mean, no question that Van Basten was a great striker but should he really be called the greatest striker of all time when he _never_ scored at the WC and never won a game there? And Van Basten's case is different from the case of players who had to play for uncompetitive national teams -- like Weah and Shevchenko. He played for the European Champions, together with several other world class players like Gullit, Rijkaard and Koeman.
Agreed about Shevchenko and Weah, I think you have to consider the top club football to pick the best striker ever, not international tournaments which last four weeks every four years and people can miss through injury, non-qualification or have a bad spell, to make this objective.
Why? You go and investigate Linikers Record (Domestic, European and International) and I will do the same for Shearer. Meet ya back here.
Aside from what happened at Italia 90, he was a great player who impressed frequently. In regards to your question, you can say they same thing to somebody who believes that either Di Stefano or Best were the greatest players ever and they didn't play at a World Cup.
I think one should consider both -- club football and international football. While it's true that in international tournaments a bad spell -- or a good spell -- can probably distort the class of a player more easily than in club football where consistency is more important, the WC is still the most important event for most footballers and the ability to perform under pressure to perform for one's country and not merely for one's club against the best footballers in the world should not be disregarded. And if one looks at the leading strikers in this poll one could conclude that while Ronaldo had a great national team career which qualifies him to be the grestest striker of all time his club career doesn't lend itself to such a claim, and that while Van Basten's club career is great enough to warrant such a claim his national team career isn't. In Mueller's case one can say he had a great national team career _and_ a great club career.
In the English league, you can say that Shearer was better, he has been one of the greatest players to have played in the Premier League. At the World Cup for England, Lineker was better. At Mexico 86, Lineker was leading goalscorer with six goals. He scored a hat-trick against Poland, all in the first-half, a double against Paraguay and a single against Argentina. At Italia 90, he scored four goals. He scored singles against the Republic of Ireland and West Germany and before the semi-final against the Germans, he scored a double against Cameroon, though both goals were penalties. 10 goals in two World Cups is a very good record and at Mexico 86, the English lost in quarter-finals so if England had defeated the Argies, surely Lineker would have scored a few more. In comparision to Lineker, Shearer hasn't done much at World Cup tornaments for England. I'll be back with more.
How on earth could you put Clough ahead of Greaves? Greaves stands as the 16th highest goalscorer in the history of the world game. He scored 44 goals in 57 games. Clough had 2 caps. He was a great manger and a superb player, but he was not on the level of Greaves. Just as Shearer doesn't compare to Lineker.
Yes, I would probably ask the same of Best and Di Stefano if one were to claim either one was the greatest player ever. Though their cases are a bit different. Neither player ever played in the World Cup Finals, for once. And neither played in a national team which was as strong as the Netherlands were -- or better, should have been -- in 1990.
Career Record (Club) Alan Shearer 692 games 365 goals Europen Record Alan Shearer 42 games 28 goals International Record Alan Shearer 63 Games* 30 Goals Career Record (Total) Alan Shearer 758 games 393 goals *34 as captain
I can not believe how ridiculously one sided and unfair this is. Players get to play in 2 world cups if they are lucky (age, injury, play for a sh!t country etc) in what is a 10 year high patch in a career (20-30 years old). 8 weeks out of 416 does not contribute a good marker towards a players overall capability at performing his job well and consistantly. *Greaves is not the 16th highest goalscorer in the world game, he is 16th highest in International football records. **At international level Lineker has slightly higer goals per game ratio, at club level Shearer was a far more successful player than Lineker. Think about it, as for Cloughie, look at his club stats, before he was injured and tell me there has been a more prolific scorer in top flight English football.
sure , but you have to put in perspective that van basten or ronaldo allready have played for 2 worldcups..1986 the worldcup for van basten has ended in the qualifycation....one of the reasons was his goalscoring slump..only 2 goals in 14 wc qualifyer games,0 goals in 4 worldcup games (no win) in his career is in my opinion a disaster ... gerd müller has ended his nationalteam career 1974 with age 28..he hasnt played more world cups than van basten or ronaldo..he wanted more time for his family..still after 1974 up to 1978 gerd müller was the best gpg goalscorer in germany(1978 topscorer with age 32-33) (overshadowed 1976 and 1977 with injuries where has cost him the topscorer crown in germany twice, 23 goals in only 22 games and 28 goals in only 25 games with age 30-32 was superb)..ronaldo is current 28 years old and he could play his third worldcup next year ..so he has one more chance than van basten or müller to win a worldcup..both players had reasons to end the NT career early .... but generell i have to put in perspective between van basten and müller .. van basten 2 goals in 18 wc/wcq games (gpg ratio 0.11) van basten 16 goals in 24 ec/ecq games (gpg ratio 0.66) müller 23 goals in 19 wc/wcq games (gpg ratio 1.21) müller 16 goals in 12 ec/ecq games (gpg ratio 1.33) i must not explain how big the difrence is between both players in games for big tournaments.. i generell agree that van basten was the technical best allround striker in the world..
The Ukraine is not all _that_ bad a team, you know. They are not Liberia or Northern Ireland. I can see why they lost against Germany in the relegation but they didn't really have to lose out to Poland for the WC 2002 IMO. And they will probably qualify in a tough group for the WC 2006. So we will see how Shevchenko does at the World Cup next year. In general, it's probably unfair but true that players who play for uncompetitive national teams are at a disadvantage. They will always be rated lower than players with comparable club careers but outstanding World Cup performances.
It's not all down to stats though, is it? Otherwise Patrick Kluivert and Ruud van Nistelrooij are better strikers than Van Basten. I doubt you'll find many people who agree with that.
Probably not, as Europens tend to like flair and skillfull players who last a few seasons more than they do a strong, hard working player that lasts 12 seasons at the top level. I think it is funny tho' that you can rate Lineker instead, he never left the 6 yard box for god's sake. He would never have scored half the goals he did for England if he had not played with Beardsley, I have heard the man himself say it on the TV.
Gary Lineker: He was leading goalscorer in three seasons in the English first division. In 1985, he scored 24 goals for Leicester City, in 1986 he scored 30 goals for Everton and in 1990 he scored 24 goals for Spurs. In 1986, he scored 40 goals for Everton in all competitions and in this season, Everton weren't permitted to play in Europe because of the ban on English clubs. In the same year, he was runner-up in the European Player of the Year award and he won the Football Writers Association Player of the Year award, which he also won in 1992. He played in two FA Cup Finals, winning one in 1991 with Spurs. He played in his first in 1986, when Everton lost to Liverpool and in the first half of the final, Lineker gave Everton the lead. In 1990, he won the FIFA Fair Play award and in 1992 he was awarded the OBE. He won 80 caps for England and he scored 48 goals, a scoring rate of 60 per cent and he was one goal away from equalling Bobby Charlton's record.
i agree that its a bit unfair for players like shevchenko where plays in uncometive national teams...on the other hand there are few players where did well in both categorys, for club and Nt team.. .. gerd müller is alltime topscorer and alltime gpg leader in eurocup history ..and he was 4 times eurocup topscorer (record)... players like nistelroy where comes a bit close to müller in eurocup goals lacks success with the team ..müller won 3 eurochampionscups and 1 eurocup cupwinner..this is what makes him better than the other great strikers..he was successful in every category (personal and with his teams)...... i put olso in perspective that gerd müller has created with beckenbauer and maier a worlclass club team....bayern munich and his players beckenbauer , müller and maier was a international unknown and a second division team 1964/65 ..he and his team sensational was eurocupwinner cupwinners only 2 years later 1966/67 with the same teamplayers....van basten, ronaldo and many other great stikers never did this and have played and was babysitted since beginnning in top teams in holland,italy and spain.. ...
In 1992 Shearer moved to Blackburn Rovers for a British record of £3.6 million. He became the only player in English football history to score 30 or more goals in three consecutive seasons, helping Blackburn win their first Premiership title in 81 years in the 1994/95 season. This despite sustaining a few injuries throughout the seasons. At Euro 96, Shearer became the top scorer with 5 goals in what were some of England's most memorable performances on home soil.