This is for players who play a more conventional central defensive role than for the sweepers poll. Who is the best?
I probably would have put Baresi and Koeman in with the sweepers, but since you give me that choice, Baresi it is.
Baresi is the epitome of a sweeper. I think this is comme's way of getting Baresi onto the first XI since he knows Beckenbauer is a shoe in for the sweeper's poll
I voted for Baresi because he's there but I like Spartak pointed out, Baresi is a sweeper. Both Baresi, Koeman and Bergomi are in the wrong poll. Bergomi should be in this one. Out of those who are legitimate centre backs, I'll go for Nesta with Varela not being for behind but I'll still believe that Nesta is capable of more. It's not the end of the line for him yet.
I sympathize w/ Tesos... I mean.. Campbell, even Tony Adams would have been a much better choice, or any number of CB's. However, I'm not being overly critical of comme... this is a hard thing to constuct and at a certain stage you always run out of names... picking out players who we think should not be there is much easier than compiling a full list of players who should be there... if there's only 2 names in each list that dont belong in the end comme would have done a great job.
Spartak- I couldn't help it. As for Campbell, he fully merits his place in the poll. He has been in the squad of the tournament at 3 of the 4 major championships he has been at, and is a peerless stopper. What he does is limited, but he does it extremely well.
It is hard to divide central defenders by role, because each system and each player is different. I might have picked Varela, but if we're trying to get the best pairing based on both central defensive polls, I'd say the Baresi-Beckembauer combination should trump all others, better than the Varela-Beckembauer combination IMHO. So I voted for Baresi on this one. .........................Yashin D.Santos....Baresi........Beckembauer.....Maldini Doesn't look all that bad.
Or you could have Rijkaard as DM and Beckembauer in the back. Really, their positions could be interchangeable throughout the match, and they are both versatile and smart enough to be able to spell and compliment each other.
I had an arguement about the merits of elegant backlines as a pairing with a few people ( i Think lanman also, not too sure) where basically I said that a pairing of Beckenbauer and Baresi would get murdered by an oaf like Duncan Ferguson. For all their sublime strengths on a pitch, dealing with bumbling, giant oafs is not one of them and essentially I believe that would make it a flawed pairing if it is so vulnerable in the air. Rijkaard negates this and as Beckenbauer can attack way better than Rijkaard it just makes sense to me to have the latter as the CB..less weaknesses and a further strength in that Beckenbauer can express himself more thoroughly. That was always my reasoning.
I agree w/ DS, of course that would mean no Rijkaard tearing up the pitch or imposing himself in midfield and taking a playmaker completely out of the game, but in the end, the sacrifice, if u could call it that, of playing Rijkaard at CB is less than the reward, both in the balance department and in organization (having Beckembauer in a position to organize the midfield [defensively]) and distribute the ball is too much to ignore.
Are you talking about Obdulio Varela? Obdulio was a centre-half, number 5, defensive midfielder, not a back. The best back was Baresi. Another great one was Nassazi, the great uruguayan captain of the 20's and 30's, but none of us has seen him play. I just remember another great one, Elias Figueroa, the chilean who played for Penarol and Internacional of Porto Alegre.
Not all forwards are Duncan Ferguson-like, so Beckenbauer could still play CB and switch with Rijkaard depending on the type of forward they have to face. Or one could pair Beckenbauer and Rijkaard as centrebacks (leaving out Baresi) - Beckenbauer did pretty well against giant forwards when he had the adequate stopper at his side (e.g. Schwarzenbeck). One centreback that is often overlooked is Luis Perreira, arguably the best Brazilian centreback in the modern era.
I find myself agreeing with both you and DS on this one. I would prefer a pairing of Beckenbauer with a no-nonsense physical stopper, but can see the Baresi-Beckenbauer combination. I would have expected Baresi to be a competitor for the Beckenbauer position. If this excercise has a flaw its that we are not being asked to consider pairings which create tactical options (eg. the Beckenbauer and Rikjaard switch you outline) in our voting position by position. Its a straight-up choice of who's best, not whose best together. It will be interesting to see the team that results. comme, correct me if I'm wrong...but you do want votes based on the options provided, without consideration for the overall team composition? True.
I always believe you need one 'gritty' CB in front of your keeper. Baresi -Beckenbauer is nice 'n all... but a pairing of Ferguson-Klose would dominate them whilst not even being good players. You can have all the talent and reading of the game you want..if you don't have the physical capacity to stop a bear type CF from bundling the ball over the line from a cross or a power play you're going to be in big trouble. In a beautiful game against beautifully talented players, sure, they could work together and be an elegant and controlled pairing but if you put two bears on them... at least if you have a physical CB next to an elegant type the elegant one can sweep up after the 'brute' and things flow smoothly again. Two ruffians against two elegant players... I wouldn't fancy their chances tbh. This isn't to say either player is soft, far from it. Just that in an all-time backline you'd like to think there was not such an obvious weakness from the get-go. Baresi is short by today's standards and never was 'magnificent' in the air like say Passarella or Cordoba is, he read the play and collected the 2nd ball most times and Franz was not suited to an aerial battle against 6'4 15stone/200lb+ strikers that you see from time to time in the modern game. I'd just like to think that an all-time team would look almost infallable on paper. Baresi-Beckenbauer most certainly does not, imo.
Here's the solution for this problem: It's time Katsche Schwarzenbeck makes it to one of these All-Time polls...