The Great MLS Referee Database Thread

Discussion in 'Referee' started by ManiacalClown, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bujsaim = UAE
    Dougal = Scotland
    Matsumura = Japan
    Sun = China

    Code:
    5/1/1999
    Chicago Fire 3 - 2 D.C. United
    Stuart DOUGAL / Roger ITAYA / Rob FEREDAY / ???
    YELLOW: C. Talley, D. Gutierrez, L. Kubik, J. Moore, C.J. Brown, R. Kosecki, G. Aunger, A.J. Wood
    RED: B. Kamler, L. Kubik (2CT), C. Talley (2CT)
     
  2. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    4th for that game was Ricardo Salazar. 5th official (MLS ref on hand in case game went to MLS style shootout) was Grady
     
  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I found the error. For some reason the summary on the MLS website didn't list any of the stats for the 9/18/99 Colorado-LA match. I had to go find an archive of the Rapids website to dig up the cards. There were indeed 7 yellows shown in that match. Here are the fixed stats for 1999:


    Code:
    REGULAR SEASON
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		  7	  10	 1.43	  1	0.14
    Bujsaim, Ali Mohamed	  4	  14	 3.50	  1	0.25
    Corrie, Gerry		  4	  12	 3.00	  1	0.25
    Covaciu-Woods, Ted	  6	  25	 4.17	  2	0.33
    Dougal, Stuart		  3	  23	 7.67	  3	1.00
    Giordano, Alberto	  3	   8	 2.67	  0	0.00
    Grady, Rich		  9	  45	 5.00	  6	0.67
    Hall, Brian		 15	  46	 3.07	  3	0.20
    Heron, Richard		  7	  14	 2.00	  2	0.29
    Hunt, Sandra		  7	  26	 3.71	  0	0.00
    Kennedy, Michael	  6	  20	 3.33	  2	0.33
    Kenny, Noel		 14	  42	 3.00	  6	0.43
    Lay, Nancy		  4	   8	 2.00	  0	0.00
    Matsumura, Kazuhiko	  4	  11	 2.75	  0	0.00
    Perry, Todd		  1	   4	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Prus, Alex		  7	  20	 2.86	  4	0.57
    Quisenberry, Kermit	  2	   6	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Rodhas, Ruben		  3	   5	 1.67	  1	0.33
    Rutty, Reggie		  5	  16	 3.20	  3	0.60
    Saheli, Ali		 10	  42	 4.20	  2	0.20
    Sanchez, Francisco	  1	   3	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Seitz, Kari		  1	   2	 2.00	  0	0.00
    Sheker, Robert		  6	  13	 2.17	  2	0.33
    Stott, Kevin		 13	  30	 2.31	  3	0.23
    Sun Baojie		  4	  25	 6.25	  0	0.00
    Tamberino, Paul		 14	  38	 2.71	  2	0.14
    Terry, Kevin		  8	  24	 3.00	  1	0.13
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	 10	  38	 3.80	  5	0.50
    Weyland, Tim		  7	  22	 3.14	  3	0.43
    Yonan, Marcel		  7	  17	 2.43	  1	0.14
    [b]ALL REFEREES		192	 609	 3.17	 54	0.28[/b]
    Code:
    PLAYOFFS
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		  1	   3	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Grady, Rich		  1	   5	 5.00	  0	0.00
    Hall, Brian		  2	  13	 6.50	  0	0.00
    Kenny, Noel		  1	   4	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Saheli, Ali		  1	   5	 5.00	  0	0.00
    Stott, Kevin		  2	  13	 6.50	  0	0.00
    Tamberino, Paul		  1	   2	 2.00	  0	0.00
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  3	  12	 4.00	  2	0.67
    Weyland, Tim		  3	  11	 3.67	  0	0.00
    Yonan, Marcel		  1	   4	 4.00	  1	1.00
    [b]ALL REFEREES		 16	  72	 4.50	  3	0.19[/b]
    Code:
    OVERALL
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		  8	  13	 1.63	  1	0.13
    Bujsaim, Ali Mohamed	  4	  14	 3.50	  1	0.25
    Corrie, Gerry		  4	  12	 3.00	  1	0.25
    Covaciu-Woods, Ted	  6	  25	 4.17	  2	0.33
    Dougal, Stuart		  3	  23	 7.67	  3	1.00
    Giordano, Alberto	  3	   8	 2.67	  0	0.00
    Grady, Rich		 10	  50	 5.00	  6	0.60
    Hall, Brian		 17	  59	 3.47	  3	0.18
    Heron, Richard		  7	  14	 2.00	  2	0.29
    Hunt, Sandra		  7	  26	 3.71	  0	0.00
    Kennedy, Michael	  6	  20	 3.33	  2	0.33
    Kenny, Noel		 15	  46	 3.07	  6	0.40
    Lay, Nancy		  4	   8	 2.00	  0	0.00
    Matsumura, Kazuhiko	  4	  11	 2.75	  0	0.00
    Perry, Todd		  1	   4	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Prus, Alex		  7	  20	 2.86	  4	0.57
    Quisenberry, Kermit	  2	   6	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Rodhas, Ruben		  3	   5	 1.67	  1	0.33
    Rutty, Reggie		  5	  16	 3.20	  3	0.60
    Saheli, Ali		 11	  47	 4.27	  2	0.18
    Sanchez, Francisco	  1	   3	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Seitz, Kari		  1	   2	 2.00	  0	0.00
    Sheker, Robert		  6	  13	 2.17	  2	0.33
    Stott, Kevin		 15	  43	 2.87	  3	0.20
    Sun Baojie		  4	  25	 6.25	  0	0.00
    Tamberino, Paul		 15	  40	 2.67	  2	0.13
    Terry, Kevin		  8	  24	 3.00	  1	0.13
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	 13	  50	 3.85	  7	0.54
    Weyland, Tim		 10	  33	 3.30	  3	0.30
    Yonan, Marcel		  8	  21	 2.63	  2	0.25
    [b]ALL REFEREES		208	 681	 3.27	 57	0.27[/b]
     
  4. refmedic

    refmedic Member

    Sep 22, 2008
    Any one else find it interesting that all of the female referees combined in this list did not give a single red card in the entire season?
     
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2000:

    Code:
    REGULAR SEASON
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		 11	  31	 2.82	  1	0.09
    Corrie, Gerry		 12	  41	 3.42	  1	0.08
    Covaciu-Woods, Tim	  6	  23	 3.83	  2	0.33
    Grady, Rich		  8	  44	 5.50	  4	0.50
    Hall, Brian		 12	  63	 5.25	  6	0.50
    Heron, Richard		  6	  15	 2.50	  0	0.00
    Hugo, Brett		  3	  10	 3.33	  0	0.00
    Hunt, Sandra		  2	   9	 4.50	  3	1.50
    Kennedy, Michael	  6	  25	 4.17	  0	0.00
    Kenny, Noel		 15	  61	 4.07	 10	0.67
    Kim Tae Young		  3	   5	 1.67	  1	0.33
    Prus, Alex		 14	  51	 3.64	  1	0.07
    Rutty, Reggie		  4	  10	 2.50	  2	0.50
    Saheli, Ali		  8	  44	 5.50	  2	0.25
    Stott, Kevin		 13	  57	 4.38	  1	0.08
    Tamberino, Paul		 16	  46	 2.88	  4	0.25
    Terry, Kevin		 11	  34	 3.09	  6	0.55
    Tsapos, Misail		  2	  12	 6.00	  2	1.00
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	 11	  52	 4.73	  6	0.55
    Vaughn, Terry		  2	   8	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Vega, Sergio		  2	  10	 5.00	  0	0.00
    Weyland, Tim		 11	  39	 3.55	  1	0.09
    Yonan, Marcel		 14	  38	 2.71	  1	0.07
    [b]ALL REFEREES		192	 728	 3.79	 54	0.28[/b]
    Code:
    PLAYOFFS
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Grady, Rich		  1	   6	 6.00	  1	1.00
    Hall, Brian		  2	  14	 7.00	  1	0.50
    Kenny, Noel		  1	   4	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Prus, Alex		  1	   3	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Stott, Kevin		  1	   5	 5.00	  0	0.00
    Tamberino, Paul		  3	  10	 3.33	  1	0.33
    Terry, Kevin		  3	   8	 2.67	  0	0.00
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  2	   9	 4.50	  0	0.00
    Weyland, Tim		  2	  12	 6.00	  0	0.00
    Yonan, Marcel		  1	   4	 4.00	  0	0.00
    [b]ALL REFEREES		 17	  75	 4.41	  3	0.18[/b]
    Code:
    OVERALL
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		 11	  31	 2.82	  1	0.09
    Corrie, Gerry		 12	  41	 3.42	  1	0.08
    Covaciu-Woods, Tim	  6	  23	 3.83	  2	0.33
    Grady, Rich		  9	  50	 5.56	  5	0.56
    Hall, Brian		 14	  77	 5.50	  7	0.50
    Heron, Richard		  6	  15	 2.50	  0	0.00
    Hugo, Brett		  3	  10	 3.33	  0	0.00
    Hunt, Sandra		  2	   9	 4.50	  3	1.50
    Kennedy, Michael	  6	  25	 4.17	  0	0.00
    Kenny, Noel		 16	  65	 4.06	 10	0.63
    Kim Tae Young		  3	   5	 1.67	  1	0.33
    Prus, Alex		 15	  54	 3.60	  1	0.07
    Rutty, Reggie		  4	  10	 2.50	  2	0.50
    Saheli, Ali		  8	  44	 5.50	  2	0.25
    Stott, Kevin		 14	  62	 4.43	  1	0.07
    Tamberino, Paul		 19	  56	 2.95	  5	0.26
    Terry, Kevin		 14	  42	 3.00	  6	0.43
    Tsapos, Misail		  2	  12	 6.00	  2	1.00
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	 13	  61	 4.69	  6	0.46
    Vaughn, Terry		  2	   8	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Vega, Sergio		  2	  10	 5.00	  0	0.00
    Weyland, Tim		 13	  51	 3.92	  1	0.08
    Yonan, Marcel		 15	  42	 2.80	  1	0.07
    [b]ALL REFEREES		209	 803	 3.84	 57	0.27[/b]
     
  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was hoping to get the 2001 stats up tonight because they're basically hilarious, but I'm having difficulty confirming the accuracy.

    To give you an idea of what I'm working with, I have the all-time MLS referee register, excerpted from the 2009 MLS Fact and Record Book. In other words, I have the OFFICIAL stats for every referee through the 2008 season. The problem, of course, is that I know it's not completely accurate. That's why I decided to start this project in the first place; the MLS statistics are bunk.

    What's killing me is that the league apparently couldn't even post accurate stats in the damned box scores over the years. In 2001, for example, what I had collected from the main MLS website for one referee showed 12 less yellows than he was credited for in the record book. I tracked it down to one particular game that according to the MLS website had no cards shown. I decided to double check by looking at an archive of one of the team websites. The box score on the team website showed TEN yellows in that game. Still leaves me off by two from the official numbers, but at least it's close enough now to not make a huge difference in terms of averages.

    It's just shocking how poorly run the MLS website has been over the years.
     
  7. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Over the years? It still is. Their article yesterday of thee round-up of international action for MLS players said it was the complete list. Immediately in the comments 4-5 players were pointed out as missing (including 1 by me, Steward Ceus). If they can't even track one of their own players starting in a World Cup Qualifier for MLS's confederation...
     
  8. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Oh yes. I've found so many errors. Luckily you can trust the FARB though. Although, I think they actually missed one of the reds to Branco in 1997.

    BTW, I forget if I've ever discussed this stuff with you before, but I have a list of every single red card excluding all the ones for coaches (which I had to go through and figure out).
     
  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I've decided that there's not much I can do to figure out if the FARB or the website is correct on a few things so I'm going to go ahead and post the stats I've got and see if anyone can help.

    Code:
    REGULAR SEASON
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		  2	   3	 1.50	  0	0.00
    Corrie, Gerry		 11	  42	 3.82	  4	0.36
    Grady, Rich		  7	  35	 5.00	  3	0.43
    Hall, Brian		  8	  43	 5.38	  2	0.25
    Heron, Richard		  6	  15	 2.50	  1	0.17
    Kennedy, Michael	  7	  24	 3.43	  1	0.14
    Kenny, Noel		 13	  49	 3.77	  6	0.46
    Kokolski, Peter		  6	  19	 3.17	  2	0.33
    Prus, Alex		 14	  57	 4.07	  0	0.00
    Rutty, Reggie		  5	  13	 2.60	  0	0.00
    Salazar, Ricardo	  5	  14	 2.80	  2	0.40
    Sill, Roger		  3	  10	 3.33	  1	0.33
    Simmons, Erich		  1	   5	 5.00	  0	0.00
    St. Silva, Gus		  6	  28	 4.67	  3	0.50
    Stott, Kevin		 10	  37	 3.70	  4	0.40
    Tamberino, Paul		 11	  31	 2.82	  2	0.18
    Terry, Kevin		 13	  45	 3.46	  7	0.54
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  8	  45	 5.63	  0	0.00
    Vaughn, Terry		  8	  33	 4.13	  4	0.50
    Vega, Sergio		  5	  20	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Weyland, Tim		  7	  34	 4.86	  3	0.43
    Yonan, Marcel		  2	   8	 4.00	  0	0.00
    [b]ALL REFEREES		158	 610	 3.86	 45	0.28[/b]
    Code:
    PLAYOFFS
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Corrie, Gerry		  2	  10	 5.00	  0	0.00
    Kenny, Noel		  1	   2	 2.00	  1	1.00
    Prus, Alex		  2	   9	 4.50	  2	1.00
    Salazar, Ricardo	  1	   2	 2.00	  0	0.00
    St. Silva, Gus		  1	  10	10.00	  1	1.00
    Stott, Kevin		  4	  17	 4.25	  1	0.25
    Tamberino, Paul		  2	   6	 3.00	  2	1.00
    Terry, Kevin		  2	   7	 3.50	  1	0.50
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  1	   5	 5.00	  3	3.00
    Vaughn, Terry		  1	   4	 4.00	  2	2.00
    Weyland, Tim		  1	   9	 9.00	  1	1.00
    [b]ALL REFEREES		 18	  81	 4.50	 14	0.78[/b]
    Code:
    OVERALL
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Barnes, Andrew		  2	   3	 1.50	  0	0.00
    Corrie, Gerry		 13	  52	 4.00	  4	0.31
    Grady, Rich		  7	  35	 5.00	  3	0.43
    Hall, Brian		  8	  43	 5.38	  2	0.25
    Heron, Richard		  6	  15	 2.50	  1	0.17
    Kennedy, Michael	  7	  24	 3.43	  1	0.14
    Kenny, Noel		 14	  51	 3.64	  7	0.50
    Kokolski, Peter		  6	  19	 3.17	  2	0.33
    Prus, Alex		 16	  66	 4.13	  2	0.13
    Rutty, Reggie		  5	  13	 2.60	  0	0.00
    Salazar, Ricardo	  6	  16	 2.67	  2	0.33
    Sill, Roger		  3	  10	 3.33	  1	0.33
    Simmons, Erich		  1	   5	 5.00	  0	0.00
    St. Silva, Gus		  7	  38	 5.43	  4	0.57
    Stott, Kevin		 14	  54	 3.86	  5	0.36
    Tamberino, Paul		 13	  37	 2.85	  4	0.31
    Terry, Kevin		 15	  52	 3.47	  8	0.53
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  9	  50	 5.56	  3	0.33
    Vaughn, Terry		  9	  37	 4.11	  6	0.67
    Vega, Sergio		  5	  20	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Weyland, Tim		  8	  43	 5.38	  4	0.50
    Yonan, Marcel		  2	   8	 4.00	  0	0.00
    [b]ALL REFEREES		176	 691	 3.93	 59	0.34[/b]

    Here are the issues I've discovered:

    Based on the online summaries, Richard Heron showed 15 yellows in 6 matches. The FARB says 22 in 6 matches. The only truly suspicious match is 4/21 Columbus vs KC. Everything I've found lists no cautions or send offs for that match.

    Meanwhile, the websites have 11 matches for Gerry Corrie (42 yellows) and 13 matches for Noel Kenny (49 yellows). The FARB says 10 matches for Corrie (38 yellows) and 14 matches for Kenny (53 yellows). The only match that has Corrie listed as referee and showing exactly 4 yellows and 0 reds is 7/17 New England vs LA. However, I can find no evidence online that Kenny worked that match and not Corrie.
     
  10. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's 2002:

    Code:
    REGULAR SEASON
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Anno, Jasen		  2	   8	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Bazakos, Elias		  4	  13	 3.25	  1	0.25
    Corrie, Gerry		 10	  37	 3.70	  1	0.10
    Grady, Rich		  8	  38	 4.75	  4	0.50
    Hall, Brian		  2	   6	 3.00	  2	1.00
    Heron, Richard		  5	  20	 4.00	  3	0.60
    Johnson, Jesse		  2	   9	 4.50	  1	0.50
    Kennedy, Michael	  8	  46	 5.75	  2	0.25
    Kenny, Noel		  6	  27	 4.50	  4	0.67
    Kokolski, Peter		  3	  10	 3.33	  2	0.67
    Marrufo, Jair		  8	  25	 3.13	  2	0.25
    Prus, Alex		 10	  35	 3.50	  1	0.10
    Rutty, Reggie		  2	   4	 2.00	  1	0.50
    Saheli, Ali		  5	  19	 3.80	  0	0.00
    Salazar, Ricardo	  9	  34	 3.78	  2	0.22
    Simmons, Erich		  5	  23	 4.60	  3	0.60
    St. Silva, Gus		 11	  50	 4.55	  2	0.18
    Stott, Kevin		 13	  56	 4.31	  6	0.46
    Terry, Kevin		 11	  30	 2.73	  1	0.09
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  8	  40	 5.00	  3	0.38
    Vaughn, Terry		  8	  27	 3.38	  3	0.38
    [b]ALL REFEREES		140	 557	 3.98	 44	0.31[/b]
    Possible errors: FARB lists 39 yellows for Prus and 42 yellows for Salazar.

    Code:
    PLAYOFFS
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Corrie, Gerry		  1	   4	 4.00	  1	1.00
    Grady, Rich		  1	   4	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Hall, Brian		  1	   7	 7.00	  1	1.00
    Heron, Richard		  1	   3	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Kennedy, Michael	  1	   6	 6.00	  0	0.00
    Marrufo, Jair		  1	   2	 2.00	  0	0.00
    Prus, Alex		  2	   9	 4.50	  0	0.00
    Salazar, Ricardo	  1	   3	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Stott, Kevin		  2	   6	 3.00	  0	0.00
    Terry, Kevin		  4	  12	 3.00	  1	0.25
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  1	   8	 8.00	  1	1.00
    Vaughn, Terry		  1	   5	 5.00	  0	0.00
    [b]ALL REFEREES		 17	  69	 4.06	  4	0.24[/b]
    Code:
    OVERALL
    
    [b]Referee             Matches   Yellow   Y/Game  Reds   R/Game[/b]
    Anno, Jasen		  2	   8	 4.00	  0	0.00
    Bazakos, Elias		  4	  13	 3.25	  1	0.25
    Corrie, Gerry		 11	  41	 3.73	  2	0.18
    Grady, Rich		  9	  42	 4.67	  4	0.44
    Hall, Brian		  3	  13	 4.33	  3	1.00
    Heron, Richard		  6	  23	 3.83	  3	0.50
    Johnson, Jesse		  2	   9	 4.50	  1	0.50
    Kennedy, Michael	  9	  52	 5.78	  2	0.22
    Kenny, Noel		  6	  27	 4.50	  4	0.67
    Kokolski, Peter		  3	  10	 3.33	  2	0.67
    Marrufo, Jair		  9	  27	 3.00	  2	0.22
    Prus, Alex		 12	  44	 3.67	  1	0.08
    Rutty, Reggie		  2	   4	 2.00	  1	0.50
    Saheli, Ali		  5	  19	 3.80	  0	0.00
    Salazar, Ricardo	 10	  37	 3.70	  2	0.20
    Simmons, Erich		  5	  23	 4.60	  3	0.60
    St. Silva, Gus		 11	  50	 4.55	  2	0.18
    Stott, Kevin		 15	  62	 4.13	  6	0.40
    Terry, Kevin		 15	  42	 2.80	  2	0.13
    Valenzuela, Ricardo	  9	  48	 5.33	  4	0.44
    Vaughn, Terry		  9	  32	 3.56	  3	0.33
    [b]ALL REFEREES		157	 626	 3.99	 48	0.31[/b]
     
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    So, here's a list of the discrepancies in the number of yellow cards from this thread:

    FARB vs your data:

    Reg. Season

    1998 - 619 vs 608
    1999 - 614 vs 609
    2000 - 736 vs 728
    2001 - 626 vs 610
    2002 - 572 vs 557

    Playoffs

    1996 - 66 vs 65
    1998 - 58 vs 57
    1999 - 69 vs 72
    2000 - 77 vs 75
    2001 - 85 vs 81
     
  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of those are going to be second yellow cards. The stats have not been consistent on how those are tallied over the years.
     
  14. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What is the proper way to tally second cautions? I'm pretty sure that you count the second caution in the total amount of cautions. I know in some leagues, that the second yellow disappears and turns into a red and is not counted in total amount of cautions.

    It's really frustrating in my local amateur league where on the match report the second caution is disregarded and just put up under sendoffs so the total caution stat is skewed.
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a referee, you report EVERY card shown so in your report it's two yellows (each for some cautionable offense) plus one red for receiving a second caution in the same match. In terms of a player's stats? That's up to the league. Because MLS has not been consistent over the years in either their stat-keeping or their match reports, I went with the option not to count the second yellow/red as separate cards because it was easier with the data available.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Currently MLS does not count second yellows towards suspension for accumulation of yellows, so your choice seems consistent with that.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting infographic that relates to this thread a lot:

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/referee/news/article/2011/10/13/referee-week-official-numbers-infographic

    1) The yearly average foul count is really something to watch. Huge spike in 2000 then a near-steady decline.

    2) Valenzuela at most fouls per game doesn't surprise me. I know Grady and Toledo are both known for throwing around a lot of cards, but it always felt like Valenzuela just called more in general.

    3) I could have sworn Brian Hall had a 14- or 16-card game before WC02. So surprised to see Salazar given that honor.

    4) Anyone know which game was Kenny's 57-foul match? If it wasn't a playoff match with extra time, that must have been something. Given substitutions and ceremonial restarts and the like, that probably ends up being well over 1-foul-per-minute when compared to dynamic play.
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love the gratuitous ass shot in the upper right of the infographic.
     
  19. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, I'd like to know when this supposed 14 card game occurred because I sure as hell can't find it.
     
  20. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Do we have reason to believe the abrupt change in 2000 was real?

    I wonder whether they improved their method for counting fouls that year. From what I hear, things like fouls and shots (and catch/punch) used to be tallied by an intern sitting in the stands with a clipboard.
     
  21. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Maybe that was in a different competition? In the 2008 SuperLiga, there was a 14-card game between the Revs and Atlante, but I looked up the ref for that one, and it was Carlos Batres, not Salazar.
     
  22. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    2000-03 have more fouls per game because of OT. The per game numbers are pretty consistent until the drop in 2008.
     
  23. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    From 1999 to 2000, there was a 17% increase in fouls per game. That's too big to be explained by a ten-minute OT period, especially since most games didn't go to OT at all.
     

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