Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Exactly - but even small changes in temperature lead to massive consequences.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now The con artists in Copenhagen are licking their chops right now.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now No argument except that "Climategate" shows how sensitive the public still is to Enron-style manipulation.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now do the ends ever justify the means? suppose you knew of some impending disaster, but you knew people are too short sighted and self-centered to cooperate and limit their self interest in order to avert global disaster. would it be okay to trick them so that you can save them despite themselves?
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now If I think their idiocy is going to take me with them? F**k yes.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now true. but then you're intefering with the process of evolution.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Which just shows how retarded it is to make these sorts of decisions with an eye on public opinion. Joe public outside my front door cannot understand why he shouldn't drive on a pedestrian platz with children play zone at speeds approaching 30km.... Not one person - literally dozens in one hour. To think he can get his head around complex stuff when he cannot even manage basic risk computation is kidding ourselves. What we really need is Karl Rove on the case
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I believe Karl has been on that case for a while .... just the wrong side of the case
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I don't give a shit. I'm dying along with them. Not if I can help it.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Did you read that article I linked for you? And what do you mean by the troposphere "not warming at all", just because we haven't surpassed surpassed the hottest year 1998 (or since you prefer NASA data now, 2005) on record we have still had a series of record years, all within the top ten hottest. The only reason 2008 was a relatively cool year was because we were in an El Nina event, but even that was still the 10th warmest on record. Watch what happens to temps over the 2010 northern summer, when a sizable portion of that heat stored in the ocean will be released into the atmosphere as this years ENSO shapes up to be at least the strongest since at least 2002
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now Nonsense?? You can do better than that. There's data, and there's fantasy. Sea level rise is well documented, miniscule, linear, and clearly NOT accelerating one iota. Even your chart shows that. "Tipping Points" are what pundits turn to when the data consistently fail to measure up to theory. The IPCC is a political document with politically appointed section heads chartered by a political organization. The process filters out information that does not conform to the charter that funds it (no shortage of examples of this.) The fact that the IPCC predicts a hockey stick effect "somewhere in the very near future" means nothing except business as usual. The "very near future" seems to move forward at a steady velocity of one year per year.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now You are aware that models used to estimate future sea levels are a mite bit more sophisticated than drawing a line on a chart, yes?
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now No it doesn't, it shows a steep and steady rise tracking at the upper limits of the IPCC projections, putting it on schedule to reach > 90cms by 2100. No need to cite them then, obviously you just proclaiming it is good enough evidence for everybody! No, this is what the IPCC projects - not a hockey stick in sight, I think you getting confused with the manufactured scandal of past climate reconstructions. ATM we are tracking well on the A2 scenario for CO2 emissions: Figure 1: Observed global CO2 emissions from fossil fuel burning and cement production compared with IPCC emissions scenarios. The coloured area covers all scenarios used to project climate change by the IPCC.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now If you knew there was a 30%, or 20%, or even 10% chance that the plane you were about to get on was about to crash, would you get on that plane, knowing there were later flights to choose from? How about if that were the only flight you had?
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now I hate to ask but do you have a link? I've never heard that. FWIW, Narragansett Bay winter temps, where I live, measured in situ have increased 1.5C in 30 years. http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/41N/Vol2No1/baywarming.html
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now True, and further, the massive loss of albedo (that's NOT labido people ) from less snow cover will only increase ocean and troposphere warming. Again...if the models are true...and predictions from models from 20 years ago are proving to be alarmingly conservative...there is a huge positive feedback loop that we are setting off that, as Foos says, we may not be able to turn off before long.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now As Bit said...IPCC only takes thermal expansion into account. It assumes ZERO melting of either the Greenland or Antarctic ice sheets. Unfortunately, both sheets are melting at a rate much faster than anything predicted 10 years ago. So Fla Metro better move to Tennessee.
Re: Climategate: it's all unravelling now ??? Somehow the slope of the IPCC graph is made to appear between 2.5 and 3.0 mm/year, instead of the conventionally accepted 1.8, but that is still only 25cms by 2100. There is no way to look at sea level over the last 100 years (1909-2009) and detect any non-linearity whatsoever. Well, just about every "denier" on the IPCC has a story to tell about this. One could search Drs. Vincent Gray, Patrick Michaels, Richard Lindzen, or Roy Spencer. Of course, I hesitate to enter into the area of naming names because they will undoubtedly be labled Oil Lobby psychopaths by half the forum. Not a confusion, just a tongue-in-cheek reference. Somehow, that 100 year straight line is going to have to hit a massively Inconvenient Truth in the near future just to bend it into "mildly disconcerting" territory. SoFla Metro is more likely to die of boredom waiting.