The future of NATO, regardless of a Democratic or Republican president

Dust off your Russian, son

 

Don't worry guys! I'm sure Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard will keep the Western world safe!

 

I was trying to put this in the best light and assume there is a language barrier causing this thread to miss the mark by a thousand miles. I can’t come up with one.

NATO is a defensive alliances. Its purpose is to convince the ones considering attacking one of us that we would be united in our response. If Russia nukes Amsterdam and America does nothing wtf are you gonna do…take us to court waiving a copy of that treaty and talk about rules and by laws? This is silly. What deterrence the alliance has left is already up to Europe to create for themselves…because we’re already out and any obligations you think we have don’t exist.

 

Europe’s task: start reverse engineering every single US produced weapons system you have in your arsenal because not only can you likely not count on us to defend you…you can likely count on us treat you like we have Ukraine when you try to defend yourselves with the systems you bought from us.

 

Ok. I’ll break it down for you. You seem to think that something like the fact that Europe can’t kick the US out of nato is a thing. What I’m telling you is that it doesn’t matter. The United States is already out of nato. Because there is zero chance that the US will come to the collective defense of any nato member were they to be attacked. You’re already on your own. No formalities necessary.

Whether the law is “air tight” or open like a sieve is equally immaterial. Again…the United States will not live up to their obligation to come to the defense of any nato member. Regardless of what the treaty says.

And there is absolutely nothing NATO can do about it.

NATO members have two options…1)recognize this reality and start acting now like the US isn’t a member and simply ignore us. Or 2)create a collective defense treaty amongst themselves and simply don’t invite the United States as a signatory.

But the US is no longer a part of NATO…in that its entire function…again…is to convince a country like Russia that attacking one member is…attacking the United States. That’s no longer true. So again…any deterrent Europe wants against attack…they need to create on their own…cause the US ain’t coming.

 

I might be ambushing Russian supply lines with the boys eighteen months from now.

 

Well regardless of anything else, they 100% have to stop buying American if we are treated as a hostile instead of an ally from now on. Would be idiotic to do otherwise.
Easier said than done of course.

 

Maybe it will push European countries to spend more on the military, could they handle a USA that went full fascist and invaded Greenland?

I hear Guyana has some oil, maybe Trump will threaten to bring freedom to them and Panama.

 

Militarily it would be easy, economically would be more difficult.

It would be nice if Europe could at least handle a 3rd world country like Russia with out our help.

 

Of course, in order to get to Greenland we'll just annex Canada first. We need Greenland to keep us safe from all those Icelandic terrorists.

 

Trump -- the "no more wars" President -- thinks he can invade Panama, Greenland, and Canada and somehow get it all done in 4 years. Assuming he actually tries, he and Melania are due for their Ceaucescu moment.

 

Those won’t be wars. They’ll be Special Military Operations. And as for a Ceaucescu moment….i think you underestimate how popular Trump is.

 

Trump is popular now. Not sure that is going to last as soon as he starts implementing his agenda.

 

A lot of this is just newspaper hype. The US isn't going to leave NATO and the other countries are not going to kick the US out. Some of the conflict just reflects a shift from a bi-polar world to a uni-polar world to a multi-polar world. Once, there was a clear role for NATO in terms of opposition to the Warsaw Pact. With the decline of the Soviet Union, there developed a tacit understanding that the US would spend more for defense than Europe but that Europe would give it deference in terms of foreign policy. American presidents always gave lip service to pushing the Europeans to pay more but I don't think they ever really cared and the Europeans were happy to spend the money on other things. It doesn't surprise me that this understanding is breaking down, but I expect it will evolve to a new understanding and not an elimination of NATO.

 

It will become obvious to the average voter long before it becomes obvious to the average Trump voter? It will never be obvious to the average Trump voter until it affects them personally. Their lack of empathy extends to the misfortune of those they know that are exactly like them.