Hahahaha, every one should rep this lady. That blew their whole argument apart didn't it. What a bunch of hypocrites. Since Altidore and Adu is being bench until they increase their work rate, we should also bench the low technical guys until they increase their technical skills too. They always say that Adu and Altidore have holes in their games yet the biggest holes in other USMNT players are their poor technical skills. That's the biggest holes that a soccer player can have by the way. If work rate was such a great attribute for a soccer player, players like Hejduk and Ching would be sold for millions and would be considered world class players already and US soccer would be a world class team.
Conversely, if US players were so talented, they would be considered world class talent and actually playing in Europe and US soccer would be a world class team.
Nope. Because as usual you're arguments are short sighted and lacking the respect of anyone with a different opinion. It's also not very original in the sense that all you did was restate my argument in reverse. The specific purpose of having vets in the team is to show the youngsters how it's done. Hejduk and Ching aren't going to get any better skillwise and therefore can't teach that to Adu & Altidore. Adu & Altidore can't teach Hejduk & Ching how to get any better skillwise. So the only logical path of action is for players like Ching & Hejduk to show players like Altidore & Adu how to battle and bleed for their country before slowly steping out of the way so they can take over. You're way of doing things is akin to a father leaving his child at birth with the argument being "Hey I did my job, there's absolutely nothing I can teach him."
The biggest advantage of the U.S. and the main reason for any and all success they have ever had in the past has been TEAMWORK, FITNESS, and TENACITY. Now, that IS the PAST, and I realize that WAY better skilled players are slowly coming up through our ranks, but there is no reason why we should dump the attributes above in lieu of better talent. And it is agreed that we shouldn't dump talent in lieu of the attributes above. There is a way to have both and that is what I want and what I believe Bob is building for. What I think our argument boils down to is that I believe Bob is managing things well enough to achieve this goal and you do not. If that is the main argument then I suggest we leave it at that and respectively agree to disagree. If anything it is the combination of said attributes along with the increase in skill level that will give us the best realistic shot of winning the Cup. One or the other will not be enough to win it.
In the last two threads I've learned that Adu is a better passer than both Messi and Ronaldo, and now I find that he's got similar skills to Riquelme. It boggles the mind. If he had a fraction of the talent of those three: 1) We'd all lose our minds. 2) He wouldn't be a bench player on a lower half French team. The kid's about to turn 20. He's the same age as Theo Walcott; only a year younger than guys like Cesc Fabregas By the way, Riquelme doesn't play for Argentina because he's an A-hole prima donna. Great talent, but there's a reason Barcelona and Villarreal were both happy to dump him. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too volatile. I'd take him on the USMNT in a heartbeat because he's a massive upgrade from our current talent. And it would work fine for the US, because he'd be the center of everything we do, which is what he likes (for example with Boca). When he's not the center of attention (see Argentina, Barcelona, etc.) he whines like a brat.
You should explain to me exactly why I am a hypocrite rather than resorting to name calling. There is no need for you to become so defensive or offended. I have nothing personal against you. I simply disagree. If you can't except that then just agree to disagree. Cheers.
Let's see if you can turn this into Adu being better than Ronaldinho in his prime: "Adu does these entertaining, effective and surprising things that are usually reserved for Ronaldinho."
Do you even know the meaning of "hypocrite"? Def: a person who pretends to have desirable or publicly approved attitudes, beliefs, principles, which he does not actually possess. Pretends to be what he is not. kokoplus10 is nothing if not a calm, consistant advocate for his fairly normal, rational opinions. Lighten up.
You don't understand how players develop from say, ages 14 - 24, do you? ** Didn't mean to sound harsh. You may want to be careful the sources you cite, however.
Name calling? You calling my argument short sighted, and I call you a hypocrite because do you actually see how short sighted your argument are as well? And I have nothing against you neither, nor I am at all offended. I just responded to what you said to me. See above.
I love the strawman you build there. Show me the post that I said that he has similar skills to Riquelme.
Ofcourse I know how player development works. I am just making an argument of how hypocritical the opposite viewpoints are.
Well cheers to keeping it civil and I will explain myself further. I called your argument "shortsighted" because I don't think it benefits the long term goals of the USMNT program which is at all times to be competitive while at the same time developing youth talent to be competitive for years to come. IMO dumping guys like Ching & Hejduk who are still serviceable, still serve a function (albeit somewhat limited), and are great veteran leaders for the likes of youth prospects does not help the team in the long term. It alienates guys who have given their time to the program, thins out the player pool/depth, and it does a disservice to young players in the respect that they have no one to look up to as role models and for guidance. If a youth player is gifted a starting role for their country then they may begin to expect the same "gifts" in all other aspects of their careers. As a result said players may never reach their full potential. Bob Bradley recently said that he had no hesitation about Altidore's talents, but that starting for the National Team is something that must be EARNED. It is a good lesson to learn and a lesson that keeps extremely talented youngsters on the correct path to success. One might argue that U.S. soccer failed in this regard with players such as EJ and Benny...although the book is not closed on either of their careers yet.
I'm still confused as to how they are hypocritical. As far as I can gather my argument is not "in contradiction with my beliefs" on how the USMNT program should be run. If anything I believe my argument is EXACTLY in line with my beliefs on how the program should be run.
You demand every players to have a high work rate in order to get playing time for the national team yet you don't demand every players to have high technical skill? You think one group has a huge hole in their game and they should be complete players before they get serious play time yet the other group has much bigger holes in their game yet you have no problem with it. Oh, forget it. Let's just agree to disagree shall we, I am tire of arguing over and over.
I expect every crop of young players to have a higher technical skill set than the previous one. This is inevitable and will continue to be the case until U.S. soccer reaches the consistant level of skill across the board that only countries like Italy, Brazil, etc. currently enjoy. Regardless of the chasm between the individual skillsets of youth players and veteran players I expect youth prospects to be brought along and bled into the system slowly, replacing aging vets. It's the way it's done EVERYWHERE and it is done that way for a reason. I want the best out of our young players. I want them to reach their full potential. I believe the best way to get that is by putting them through the trials slowly and making them earn it. Right-o.
Honestly, the reason it's done that way elsewhere is that the older players are better than the younger players. In some cases, experience will make up for lack of speed (see Ryan Giggs). But, other teams don't purposefully keep better players off the field. Wayne Rooney has played for the England NT since he was 17. He was better than whoever was #2. It didn't matter what the age difference was. Ronaldo has played for Portugal since he was 18. For a while, you could see that age and experience would trump his raw ability. Not for long though, and no one made the argument that the age and experience counted beyond that which would make that player play better on the field. Messi has played for Argentina over skads of older players. He's creative too. (eeeks!) Pato is playing for Brazil. I'm sure that they have older and wiser players -- it's just that Pato has better ability. The US is probably in a unique situation, where the younger players are better skilled than the older players. We're one of the few countries that haven't lived and breathed soccer for 50 years. Other teams have their veteran players on the squad to provide stability -- I just think that the players that get onto the field are the ones who will play the games the best on that day. No more and no less.
Then I guess the question becomes are Adu and Altidore comparable to players like Ronaldo, Messi, or Pato? I don't think they are. And that may be part of the argument.
Altidore may not be Pato, but he isn't fighting brazilian Ronaldo for a spot now is he? Freddy Adu isn't trying to take a starting spot away from Figo either. So yeah I guess the quality of both younger and older players is part of the question. I think you've already agreed that the younger players have better skill.
i did a quick search and found that Pato has played in 2 games this WCQ cycle.... and both games he came in and got 20-30min..... he's played in other games such as friendlies, but 2 competitive games and he's mustered limited minutes... its not a bash against him, simply saying that even Pato is getting limited time with brazil Jozy & Adu has subbed and started for the US in this WCQ cycle.... these younger players are not that far off of their peers as for PT.... is jozy & adu better then Ching?? yes and no... depends what you are requesting of them.... they are by far more techincal then Ching, but lets be honest, we arent asking Ching to be technical... we are asking him to hold up the play and draw the fouls.... he has obtained us very dangerous free kicks and has allowed play to build.... our younger players would do well to watch and learn some.....
Absolutely. If our younger players can keep a good head on their shoulders and if they have the heart, desire, and determination to win starting spots in good leagues in Europe then this team is going to be SCARY good in the future. But those are all "if's". A lot of things have to happen correctly to win a starting spot in one of the big leagues. It isn't just about talent which players like Dempsey, Donovan, and even Altidore & Adu talk about frequently.
I find this interesting........... Altidore many times has demonstrated a great ability to hold up balls...and Adu has demonstrated many times to get us foul calls and free kicks after the defenders take him out..........