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Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by rwhunter4, Mar 13, 2004.
I disagree with the fact that the only measuring stick is WCQ and WC. Obviously the result in a friendly is mostly meaningless. But we haven't played well at all since Korea/Japan. In fact we have pretty much sucked. I don't mind losing to the Dutch 1-0, but I do mind looking like crap in the process. And I do mind drawing with Haiti and looking like crap in the process. Eventually someone will be held responsible and I'll venture to guess it won't be Donovan or DMB or Reyna etc...
Well, the players should give a crap. Every time they put on their nations shirt. No matter who they are playing. That is there job. It is the managers job to motivate his players.
what you said is a worse condemnation of Bruce Arena than the 1-1 result with Haiti.
(see i can use xml too)
Do you have a collection? Get a life.
futbol571 - could you please refrain from calling other posters names?
Well with any luck, maybe Canada loses in the first round, we skate by on a late John Wolyniec header to tie Panama at home to advance, and we borrow Mr.Yallop for the next two years.
I believe Buddle should be near healed, just thinking about the timeframe, but maybe not. Still how do you explain how many minutes Buddle and Casey have vs. Wolyniec and Kirovski over the past couple of years? Does giving Kirovski his 58th cap as opposed to his 57th really give us any better feel for how he is going to perform in qualifying? Does anyone think so? We don't know that already? Should we have been starting him last summer over Casey, no, even better, to the exclusion of Casey? As a result we have a minisculy better idea of how inadequate Jovan will be in a qualifying environment and we have absolutely no idea how Casey will do. For all of you defending Arena by saying he's just trying to develop pool depth by seeing who will respond in a hostile qualifying environment, try to explain that omission to me.
Bruce has always said we're going to bring Kyle Martino along slowly. So we're bringing along slowly one of our most talented guys while we're tossing John Wolyniec straight into the fray. Does that make sense? The one time Kyle has started is the one time we've had offense against a good opponent. That's obviously a bit of an overstatement, but it cuts to the spirit of the thing. So we have only a hint of how a real talent like Martino will respond to Nat duty. But we know for dang sure that Armas still has only sporadic success at delivering a forward pass.
Is anyone else disturbed by BA's recent talk of bringing in Earnie Stewart and Cobi Jones? Is that the right direction for this team?
With all this, I have to wonder not whether or not Bruce is a good coach (He is) but whether or not he is still the RIGHT COACH. I have my doubts.
Really how much does that cost?
Give some serious discussion like Deutermonoxide or STFU.
Sorry just calling a spade a spade due to the ignorantometer being off the charts.
This topic is supposed to be a post-mortem of the U.S.-Haiti game. But I guess that everything is fair game. Well, let me add my 2 cents. About getting our best athletes, no we don't. But let's look at the example of Brazil. Example #1, Roberto Carlos. Reportedly has run a 10.6 100 meters. That's just a notch below world-class sprinters. But, there's that old "s" word as well (skill). I sometimes feel that U.S. coaches look at Brazilian players like him and think that it just happens magically as they samba through Carnivale in Rio, and that our kids are genetically programmed to resist learning creative skill. NO, NO, NO, THEY WORK WITH THE BALL, CONSTANTLY, FROM A YOUNG AGE, PERFECTING ALL THEIR TECHNICAL SKILLS. To be sure, many players have tried to bend a ball around a wall like Roberto Carlos, but few have succeeded because they're not as talented as him. But make no mistake, he spent countless hours perfecting his technique. What do we get here? Players who in their teenage years suddenly realize that they might amount to something in soccer finally decide (or more commonly, finally get a coach who starts them on a crash course of remedial ball skills) to work with the ball. At 14, 15, IT'S TOO !@#$%^& LATE!!! What were they doing between 6-12 years old? Going to practice 2-3 times per week with coaches who told them, "Gee, son, if 4 laps are good, 5 are even better. Yuk, yuk, yuk." Well, that's why we have players who cannot string together more than 2-3 passes. It's a little late to perfect this technique now-all you can really do is refine the technique you already have, and if it isn't fundamentally sound, well, you see the results.
Arena is terrible because he is complacent, non-entertaining, and selects the wrong people.
If he won the World Cup you might have an argument but ...
You guys are wrong for basing your firing of BA on some friendlies. I say if BA doesn't step it up in WCQ then we can seriuosly consider firing him.
One note on the possible effects of BA being fired: How would the players feel? Would the players be seriously upset at BA fired? You gotta look at how the players feel on this one too.
Well said Peretz.
People who dont understand that a coach will call in "fringe" players for a meaningless low quality friendly so that he can see what else is available in his player pool should save themselves the embarassment of posting.
Oh and the "he didnt win the world cup so you dont have an argument" comment is the most inane statement I have ever read. I spent an hour sitting here drooling after reading that. By that logic the only team that shouldnt fire it's coach after a world cup is the winner. Great googlymoogly.
Your logic has no basis. Please refrain from posting.
*Stands and Applauds this post.
And that's exactly what BA is doing, he's trying out players and seeing if they work. Obviously not many have. But that's why we have friendlies. The sky isn't falling, the world isn't coming to an end.
No your point of that if BA were fired the impact would be minimal is illogical and retarded. I think it would have a great effect on the players of our MNT pool. You do not shed light on this possibility and therefore your post is illogical.
Everyone keeps calling for the inclusion of Onyewu and Casey and Cooper...its not gonna happen! Especially not in a game that doesn't fit in the international time slot on a Saturday when all of Europe is in action. Teams are not going to release their players.
Now, that doesn't excuse the U.S.'s performance at all, or some of Arena's selections. Why is Steve Ralston still getting shots at 28? What is his upward potential? I agree that Ching and Clark and Buddle and Martino and others should be given a chance to prove themselves on the field.
However, I think its ridiculous to suggest firing Arena at this stage. This is the first rough stretch the nats have had under Arena (a whole three games!). If after this debacle he continues to select some of these same players, and the US struggles against Grenada, THEN you can make a case. Calling him a fat ass may be correct, but I don't think its a good reason to fire him.
Three posts. Three examples of wasted binary code on the internet.
When I say something I say why I believe what I am saying. Instead of just making baldfaced statements try backing them up with something.
The fact that you feel that it is OK for so many of our marquee players to perform so poorly against an opponent like Haiti is disturbing to me. Even though this is "just a friendly" I feel that players like Landon Donovan should be giving 100%.
This is not the case. So why are we not getting 100% from vital parts of what will be our national team for the next ten years?
I choose to believe the manager is to blame.
We have youth in the US at 12-14 with these skills and I am not just talking about Adu. The problem isnt the U14's, its the drop off in skill once players reach high school. Forget about picking up the P-40 kids, its too late. We need to identify more than 3-4 15 year olds and add them to MLS teams. We need to invest in keeping the talented U14s motivated and challenged. One U15 National Team isnt enough. We need pluck out 100s of these kids a year and put them into top level clubs year round. This is where Nike should invest its money.
What you're talking about is reserve teams for MLS.
How much money does THAT cost?
Why would Nike be willing to donate all that money?
Okay, why don't you so enlightened geniuses in the "meaningless friendly" camp provide us with an exact list of each and every game over the past two years that we can justifiably and in good conscience use to assess the job that Bruce Arena is doing. Exactly which games have been meaningful, in your estimation? How many in your opinion, have there been? Confederations Cup, a tourney that offered a rare opportunity for tune-ups against three quality footballing nations -- " a meaningless tourney," according to people here and according to Bruce. We've had both Brazilian and Argentine U-23 teams beat us at home. Meaningless games. When exactly does the emerging soccer power start valuing its games?
You know, when we beat Jamaica at The Office last year, people were on here saying that it was a good win. Was that a meaningless friendly? I didn't think so at the time.
If El Tri comes to Dallas in April and hands our butts to us, which is starting to look like a strong possibility, is that also going to end up being a "meaningless friendly?" Please let me know so I can determine beforehand whether or not I have a right to complain.
I choose to believe that it's more the players fault than the managers. The players are actually out on the field making those bad passes and not scoring. It's the players fault that they tied this game. It's the players fault they played like crap. It's the players fault they didn't give 100%. It's only the managers fault that those players played, I agree with that.
We've been critical of BA in the past. I personally think the tactics the team brings to the pitch are one dimensional and have been sussed out by most opposition by now.
That would be my #1 gripe with BA along with not wanting the USMNT to play top opposition - e.g. copa america (but that's the topic of another conversation)...
That said, todays game was a friendly. True, it was the same uninspired football we've seen since the friendly against Argentina back in 2003 but to fire BA for todays result is just silly. Ridiculous.
Personally, I don't think BA is the man to take the team to the next level but he's been tasked with the next WC so he'll get evaluated then. As for me, if we don't qualify or do poorly in the WC I'd like to see a complete shake up at soccer house from Dr Bob to BA to Mooch (oh and LPGA herself April Heinrichs who should have been fired after the WC debacle). But thats my opinion. Until then, give BA the luxury of looking at players and experimenting in friendly matches. That's why they don't count for anything.
Todays match tells me less about BA and more about MLS than anything. Look where the US players play and then look where the Haitian players play.
Maybe the level of play in MLS is not good enough yet to produce a full NT or not as good as we think it is.
Just a thought. Keep the faith and remember to sound off on all the BigSoccer Radio programs.