The final insult for 2002

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by ElJefe, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coach of the Year? Steve Nicol.

    Check it out at www.revolutionsoccer.net

    Don't get me wrong. I don't think that Mike Jeffries deserved it. Two months ago, yeah, he did. But I think that the team's September nose-dive and the choke job in the playoffs pretty much sealed it.

    Likewise, two months ago, Steve Nicol was the interim head coach of the Revolution and was on his way to being told on September 22, "No, I don't think we'll hire you permanently." He's still the interim head coach, but they're in the final. Why? Because the Revolution won games when it mattered. It hasn't been pretty and in fact, they've played pretty ugly soccer, but they've been getting the W's.

    All in all, I think they made an appropriate choice. A good argument could be made for Fat Sigi, but Steve Nicol's a good choice.

    Now, let me bring it back to MJ. I don't necessarily blame him completely for the September collapse. Could he have done something to arrest it? I suppose so, but in the end, soccer is still a game that's won and lost by the 11 men on the field. I believe that the bulk of the blame has to go to the guys on the roster.

    Honestly, after seeing seven years of the "same old, same old," I'm ready to see the roster completely turned over. At this point in time, there's only three teams in the entire league that have never made the MLS Cup final: Columbus, the Metros, and us. Only five teams have never won it: Columbus, the Metros, Colorado, Sunday's loser, and us.

    Think about that: As suck-ass as the Earthquakes, Wizards, and Revolution have been throughout the majority of their histories, they have all had their chance at glory, and by Sunday night, all three may have something to their names that has eluded the Burn: a championship. How much does that sting?

    When Dave Dir was fired two years ago, I was told by someone in the organization, "He had five years. He had his chance," as if to say that he wasn't a bad coach, he just wasn't going to get the team to their ultimate goal. I think it's time to start applying the same standard to the players.

    I've got nothing but respect for Jason Kreis, Jorge Rodriguez, and Chad Deering. I've cheered for all three for years. (OK, maybe not so much for Deering at times.) I'm proud to have seen them worn the Red-and-Black, to wear the colors of my team. They're still productive players in this league. But they've been here seven, six, and the better part of five seasons, respectively. Maybe you could throw Oscar Pareja into that group as well, since he arrived not too long after Deering. They've had their chance.

    It would be tough to see those guys in other teams' shirts, but at this point, maybe that's what needs to be done. Maybe it's time to say that the players who have been at the core of this team for several years aren't going to lead the Burn to a title. And maybe a change of scenery will do some good for those guys as well.

    This has been a tough post to write. Until recently, I never would've envisioned a day when I would've advocated trading away those players. Those guys have been the core of my team for so long that I couldn't imagine the Dallas Burn without them. But you know, until August 13, 1999, I never could've imagined the Dallas Burn trading Leonel Alvarez. And the result of that trade got us within a hair of MLS Cup '99.

    And at the end of the day, it's up to Mike Jeffries to make those decisions, to decide whether or not the players are up to snuff. And while "Coach of the Year" may not be won and lost in the offseason, championships almost always are. And that's the award I care most about.
     
  2. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, NO ONE expected anything out of this team in 2002.

    It's only Jeffries' second year as head coach.

    The team, if not better than last year, is just as good and YOUNGER.

    On all the vets you mentioned possibly letting go, I think: 1)Deering had a great year. 2)Jason and Oscar played well when healthy
    3)Jorge Rodriguez is now expendable. 4)I would add Matt Jordan to that list. He's had his shot, he still goes through periods where he stinks. I would say it's time to look at replacing him, but clearly that's what the coach had/has in mind with Countess.

    Really, this team is maybe one or two starters away from contending for the Cup.

    Could one of those players be Gbandi??
    Could one of those players be Earnie Stewart?

    What happens to the Burn's dynamic if they get an Earnie Stewart? Is he what they're missing to become an elite team?

    Will Jeffries continue make excellent personnel decisions in the offseason and in the draft?

    And, the Burn are coming to New Orleans and I get to see them play!
     
  3. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    Man alive JEFE, I cannot believe what you wrote. However true it might be, I still am amazed your wrote it.

    I feel your pain.

    Last year the Galaxy could have said much the same thing. Jones, Cienfuegos, Elliot, Victorine, Hartman, EZ, Califf, Lalas, and the other run o the mill players they have there. But one guy made the difference in that team. A kid with no prior MLS experience, who was a sincere gamble on Schmid's part no matter how you look at it. Right now he's a genius.

    They lose in the final, and the Riot Squad is going to be on suicide watch. And they will be asking themselves the same question; is the core we've had since the beginning ever going to bring home the big one?

    Back to the Burn, it's an absolute certainty that players will be cut to make cap room for a forward. Hopefully a known big time scoring threat, but maybe a Ruiz type guy who catches Jeffries's eye. He's not going to count on EJ, I promise you that. I would not stake my career on EJ getting ready in the off season.

    So, while I could agree and had exactly the same despair a year ago, I see it the other way: these guys will hold it together another year or two, and they need a 15 to 20 goal scorer to go with what they have. And they will win.

    When Chad, Jason, Oscar, and Morrow have 3 more years on them, that will be that and we'll be looking at a new team from the base.
     
  4. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    I would not give up so quick on Jordan so quickly. Jordan is a mere 27 years old. Most goalkeepers do not reach their prime into their 30's. That is when they usually hone the finer points of proper positioning. Jordan still does not command his box as he should on crosses, and his foot skills are terrible, but he is an above average shot blocker.

    Countess has more potential than Jordan, but making him the automatic starter would be a step back for the Burn in net because he would have to make up for 3 years of MLS experience. Dallas would be rolling the clock back to 1999 when despite the fact that Jordan got a majority of the starts, it Dodd that played every single must win game.

    The key question for the coaching staff is whether Countess can develop faster than Jordan has. If they believe he will, they can go for the move but they must take into account that there will be growing pains.
     
  5. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    Exactly. I was going to post something along this train of thought at some point next week. I was waiting to see if LA actually managed to win the cup to the claim stand out a little more: the only thing separating the Burn from the Galaxy is a forward that delivers consistently through out the entire season and then takes it up a notch for the playoffs and Open Cup.

    A forward like Ruiz would put a number of other MLS teams over the top as well, but LA and the Burn are such similar squads it is kind of spooky. They both have the quickly aging playmaker midfielder. And a more than capable backup. Neither team has a destroyer defensive midfielder. They both can tear down opposing defenses with their wide play. LA's backline is better, but not by much.
     
  6. gotyourback

    gotyourback Member

    Jul 18, 2002
    Aurora/Arlington
    Chemistry.

    Who would've known that Graziani would play so well with the Quakes? If we actually 'got' Ruiz, would he 'gel' well with his teammates?

    It takes some real 'insight' to determine if players may/can/go play well together. I'm not convinced MJ has this 'innate' ability, nor am I sure about the front office for the Burn.

    Would I like to see Stewart in the red-and-black? A short answer would be no. I'd rather see Cerritos come back 100% and try to work with EJ.

    Then again, my biggest hope would be to see a mature, well-adjusted Diallo join the Burn... but most would agree that that would never happen.
     
  7. Alex Sanz

    Alex Sanz New Member

    Apr 6, 2000
    TX
    I hate to say it, but I think Jefe may be right. In the case of the Galaxy, their core hasn't been together for as long as the Burn core has, so I wouldn't use them as an example.

    I don't think I would get rid of all the "all-timers" but I think some of them need to go, and the list for me includes - Kreis, Deering, Rodriguez, Pareja and Jordan. Very hard guys to lose, but maybe a necessity to have some leave.

    Chemistry, perhaps ... although Graziani, despite having his standard 14-15 goal season, didn't necessarily help the Chemistry up in northern cali either, did he?

    Cerritos over Stewart. I don't think I agree, but its closer than most people think.

    Diallo .... please. Good riddance.
     
  8. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    It is a valid comparison. A significant portion of their core has been together longer than the equivalent of the Burn's core.

    Cienfuegos has played with LA since 96.
    Jones since 96.
    Ezra since 97.
    Hartman since 97.
    Elliot since 99.

    Contrast that to:
    Kreis 96
    Rodriguez 97
    Pareja 98
    Deering 98
     
  9. gotyourback

    gotyourback Member

    Jul 18, 2002
    Aurora/Arlington
    The thought of losing Oscar makes me ill. Diallo's bad attitude makes me ill. Give Diallo Cerritos' attitude and the expansive pitch of the Cotton Bowl and I'm jumping-for-joy.
     
  10. burning247

    burning247 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    England
    Sep 16, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    yes me too, losing Pareja is like losing your thumbs, you lose your grip. Zarco isn't what he use to be, but then again he didn't get much playing time this season. I'm with Viking, we can't (and shouldn't) rely on EJ for anything, I don't care if DigitalTron and all the other U-20 supporters come in here and say he's the best thing since sliced bread, we need someone who can make stuff happen, and it's a damn shame Cerritos got injured when he did, because he was just getting into the flow of being dangerous again. If EJ wants to be big man, big star he needs to surprise everyone like Graziani did in '99.

    I think we are solid in defense and midfield, our main problem is our style of attack and our attackers. Kreis needs to stay on top of his game all season and we need someone who can make defenses piss their shorts. Then add Cerritos to the mix, maybe somehow get us into a 3 forward formation.
     
  11. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically, when I wrote "Maybe it's time to turn a page," I wasn't looking so much at physical talent, but something deeper.

    Do all the "old-timers" that I mentioned still have the talent and the ability to start in this league and do well? Absolutely. No doubt about it.

    But there's just something missing. A certain something. Something that goes beyond physical talent. Maybe it's chemistry. Maybe it's heart. Maybe it's a killer instinct. I don't know what.

    Chamo pointed to the Galaxy and said, "Hey, their core has been together longer than the Burn's core." To me, that's irrelevant because two members of that core is playing in its fourth final and the rest are playing in their third.

    The Galaxy vets have got "it," whatever "it" is. The Burn vets don't.
     
  12. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Tweaking is all that's needed

    So many points to address! I'll leave my predictable "play EJ" stuff for the end. ;)

    IMHO, the Burn has a great cast, they just need tweeking, not rebuilding. Here's my opinions.

    DEFENSE:
    The two teams in the MLS Cup final play great defense. NE uses 4 in the back with both wingbacks staying at home 80% of the time and two Dmids in front of them with at least one Dmid back at all times. LA also plays with 4 in the back, but with at least one wingback staying at home at all times. In front of them they have essentially 2 Dmids in Vagenas and Elliott, with at least one back at all times. Their games require little creativity or attacking because they maintain great shape and numbers behind the ball. The dual Dmids stop counters and force the attacks wide. When SJ had Mulrooney and Ekelund both healthy, they played a similar system.

    The Burn play a 4 man back line but always have at least one guy attacking, and very often both! Morrow is good, but he simply cannot cover that much width. T-Bone can mask a lot of problems in the back, but even he cannot be everywhere at the same time. One wingback MUST stay at home at all times. Suarez and Broome need to realize this and cut back on their attacks and "share" the attacking time or the Burn will always be vulnerable. This can be solved by Suarez's maturation and the addition of Gbandi.

    Deering did a good job at Dmid this season, if he continues and the wingbacks rein themselves in a bit, the defense will be good. I also think Countess will be a great player and am not a huge fan of Jordan. But I think Jefferies may play the hot keeper next season and alternate the two.

    OFFENSE:
    The pieces are there, but the Burn needs a little maturity and patience. Pareja is playing excellent in the middle, his holding is strong, his creation is good and his defense is solid. His game seems to keep getting better.

    On the wings I think the Burn ar as good as anyone in the league, with talent and depth. Broome and Martinez had breakout years, and I think Broome will get a lot of time spelling Martinez and Gbandi on the left. On the right Vaca made the adjustment and did well, and O'Brien was a great addition. No real changes needed there except to stress a little more defense from them and keep their confidence up.

    Up top I totally disagree with Jefferies approach. He fell down that slippery slope of running his race horse (pun intended) into the ground. He needs to sit Kreis more during the season rather than play him and sub him out. He's got to have a healthy and rested Kreis for the playoffs. Ditto for Pareja, but with the wealth of Burn midfielders that's less of an issue. I see Bobby Rhine a lot like Dwayne DeRosario's supersub role for SJ. Cerritos is the odd man out because he plays when someone is injured or as a substitute, but I think he can handle that.

    The Burn's biggest problem on offense was scoring against bunkered teams and capitalizing on counter opportunities. Eddie Johnson needs to play, to make mistakes, to learn, and to find a comfort zone. Frustration inhibits learning, and the guy seems frustrated. Bottom line, Rhine starts and subs out 2/3 of the time. Johnson starts 1/3 of the time and subs in 1/3 of the time. Cerritos plays when Kreis is resting, subbed out, or someone is injured.

    The excellent Burn wingers need to emphasize crossing to spots for headers. With Cerritos and Johnson on that team, you should be able to get more goals through the air. Morrow, Suarez and T-Bone can all finish as well, so designating one of them to move forward on each set piece should be a given.

    The Burn don't need to rebuild the team IMO, they just need a little discipline (tactically) and patience. Adding Gbandi and the draft picks will make this team ultra-competitive. I dunno what'll happen in the offseason with all of the clubs, but I doubt there will be any team next season that can outclass the Burn. Now, it's all down to taking all of that talent and becoming a team. Have faith, this isn't your Dad's Oldsmobile.

    -Tron
     
  13. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Arsenal
    Sep 24, 2002
    Jakarta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ok, I've only seen one Burn game live and a few on TV, but at Game 3 against Crapids, I did notice two thing that hurt Dallas.

    1)Rhine-Every time the ball was more than a foot in front of him, he would stop and trot back to try and start playing defense. If the Burn look to improve, that ain't going to cut it. He should have tried to force the turn over and have a shot on goal if he could win the battle for the ball. Will EJ be able to do this? Don't know. I do know that EJ needs to get some more meat on him if he wants to play more and go against bigger defenders.

    2)Midfield-Was decent for the most part, but I did not see an attacking midfielder. MJ might have been trying to have them play more D after the Burn went up 1-0, but there were plenty of chances for them to put the nail in the coffin, but it seemed like everyone in the MF wouldn't come up and help add pressure to Colorado's def.

    On the bright side, the def. wingers would push the ball up and even try and help out up front, but as someone said earlier, Morrow can't hold the back on his own.

    Now some side notes...

    Stewart-He could be the attacking midfielder that Dallas needs. I have only seen him in a few games, mainly the USA NT, but if he could adapt from going the Dutch league to MLS, he could be a big factor. Then again, who knows how MJ would use him, but it could free up someone else to be the attacking MF.

    Diallo-good player, but a loose fuss and you don't know when he will go off. Also I heard the MLS transfered him to some club in Saudi Arabia. Can anyone confirm that?

    Mathis-Some people had said he might be easy to get since he is having a few problems up in NY. So who knows if we could get him. I say chances are around 50-80% that we could.

    I'll go back to my corner now. :)
     
  14. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    The "it" is very easy to define. LA has always had at least one productive forward during the playoffs if not two every year that the Galaxy has made it to the final. In 96, it was El Tanque Hurtado. In 99, it was Hermosillo and Jones. In 01, it was Victorine and Hernandez. In 02, it has been all Ruiz.

    The only productive forwards that the Burn ever has had during a playoff run were Damian in 97 and Graziani in 99.
     
  15. Alex Sanz

    Alex Sanz New Member

    Apr 6, 2000
    TX
    Chamo - fair enough with your point about the galaxy core. And what I think all these arguments finally point to is that we need a proven goal scorer, without an attitude, and with a champion's heart. Damian, Graz, Kreis - none of them had/have ALL of those qualities.

    by the way - Damian did not really lead the way in the 97 playoff run. I think he may have had only one goal in those playoffs. If anything, I think his attitude kept the Burn from going farther. And calamari.

    I'm on the keep Pareja camp too. His heart is too important to this team. Imagine it without him in there ...

    Isn't it ironic that both the Burn and the Crew are probably in the top four or five in all time wins, yet neither has ever made it to MLS Cup? Yet, teams that have hit rock bottom, some for years at a time, have at least one appearance - Colorado, San Jose, Kansas City, New England. In 2000, KC won after finishing last the year before. In 2001 SJ did the same. And now NE has a chance. It seems the best way to reach Cup quickly is to finish last the year before (or at least miss the playoffs). If I was a betting man, I would put my money on DC next year. The only team that has shown great ineptitude, yet failed to reach cup so far are the Metrohacks. They are in a loser class all by themselves.
     
  16. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Perhaps Jordan hasn't finished maturing at this point, but he has definitely slowed to make it pretty clear he won't be making any great leaps. Jordan will not be improving at anywhere near the rate that a number of other goalkeepers might, and it seems very strange to me that, while people clamor for Eddie Johnson to be given playing time, nobody says anything about DJ Countess, another youth international.

    Because, though it may seem strange, Matt Jordan is at best a mediocre MLS quality goalkeeper at this point, with little chance of overtaking anyone, and a salary that is due for an increase. Of the 9 other teams in MLS, the only one team that Jordan would definitely start on would be Colorado. Rimando and Howard are younger, have a lot more potential, and are already better than Jordan. Adin Brown and Jon Busch are younger (read: more potential), and have been far superior to Jordan in the second half of the season. Zach Thornton, Joe Cannon, and Kevin Hartman are all in the same category as Jordan: late 20's, played several years in MLS; I cannot see Jordan being ranked any higher than third of those four. I don't really know where I would put Meola, but he does have quite a pedigree.

    So, by my count, at least seven out of nine of our competitors would not start Jordan. I think it is time we let him go, draft a promising college goalie in the second or third round (we'll need to find roster spaces for draft picks, after all), and let him and Countess battle it out in the regular season. If there is any lesson to learn from this year and MLS's wacky playoff system, it's that the regular season is more for refining your team for the playoffs than winning games. Using the regular season to mature a promising young goalie would certainly be a better option than leaning on a pricey, somewhat talented player who is steadily slipping behind the rest of MLS's goalie pack.
     
  17. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, but what makes them productive during the playoffs? That's the "it" I'm talking about.

    That's certainly a relevant question, considering the veteran core that I'm currently interested in getting rid of includes a forward who's the all-time leading scorer in league history, but has fewer playoff goals than Dante Washington.
     
  18. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jordan may be better than their backup, Kramer, but now way would I take Jordan over Scott Garlick.


    I think he's the "worst" starting keeper in MLS, because he's so inconsistent.
     
  19. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    I can't argue with that. It's either Jordan or Thornton.
     
  20. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    If DJ had not been lost for the season in August, not only would have the fans been clamoring for him to get PT, he would have got significant PT.
     
  21. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    I think it would be worth it to try another goalie. I don't know if Countess is that good yet though. If he was, would he not have been starting before he got hurt? If Jordan is really the 9th keeper in the league, how could Countess NOT have been put in to start right away?

    Jordan's problem is not physical, it's mental. And that either means that next year with another year of Belgium under his belt, he'll be better.

    Or it means you might as well cut him now because he's not getting any smarter.

    Hard choice, and there's not much in between. With Countess on the developmental roster, they either have to cut Jordan or bench him. Why, if Countess is so much better today, didn't Jeffries bench him? Why didn't they keep Cassar instead of Jordan?
     
  22. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    Two reasons. First, DJ Countess was way to green to be put in as the starter right away. And while Jordan is the 9th or 10th keeper in the league. The difference between 1 and 10 is not such that you can't win consistently in this league with the keeper on the lower end of the scale.

    It is a little bit of both. His foot work is a physical liability. His inability to command the box on crosses is mental.

    That is the million dollar question. Do you wait for Jordan to reach his prime three or four years from now and hope that he is good enough to be something special, or do you go in a different direction with the younger guy that has more potential and hope that he develops a quicker rate than Jordan or plays at a higher rate during his development than what Jordan is playing at now.

    For a field player the answer is obvious. For a goalie it is not.

    Because Cassar is worse than Jordan and Countess.
     
  23. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Oh come on, Jordan isn't young. By the time he reaches his 'prime' (3-4 years?), how much farther above him will Howard and Rimando and Brown and Busch be? What makes you think that Jordan would mature faster or have any higher a ceiling than Cannon, Hartman, or Thornton? I seriously doubt that Jordan will ever be anything 'special' in this league, and it's time we either acquire a top-half goalie or start playing someone with real potential.
     
  24. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    Howard is the best keeper in MLS, and I doubt Jordan will ever be as good as him. Rimando is definitely a more flashy keeper than Jordan, but I am not so sure that he is better than Jordan. I have not seen much of Busch, but what little I have seen reminds me of Jordan.

    I don't disagree with acquiring a top-half goalie. I would take Howard, Hartman, Reis, or Cannon over Jordan on any day. Hell, Andy should go down to Chile to visit his family and snag Johnie Walker while he is down there.

    I simply was pointing out that playing a younger player with more potential such as DJ Countess will have its growing pains. Will the Burn fans be willing to miss the playoffs one year while DJ gets his MLS shoes broke in if in two years he will be playing at a higher level than what Jordan would be playing at after the same two years as the regular starter?
     
  25. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I pretty much agree with you, but I think I take a different view on the 'growing pains' that might be associated with a new goalie. Although having a green goalie like Countess start from the beginning of the season might hurt our record early in the season, I would imagine that by the end of the season, and at least by the end of his second season he would be a solid goalkeeper, hopefully at least as good as Jordan. And, playing in a league that lets eight out of ten teams advance to the playoffs, and the fact that we have an extraordinarily deep team, I don't think we're in too much of a danger of missing the playoffs. Consider New England, whose season was a dramatic failure until, what, 10 games ago? What we need to do in the regular season, far more than win the Supporters Shield, is get the team in top form for the playoffs. And if we lose a few extra at the beginning of the season, I think it's worth it.
     

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