[The FA Cup] Manchester United vs The Arsenal [R] Pre/Dur/Post Match Discussion

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Paul.eta, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When Welbeck scored yesterday, all i could think of was how it would raise his price when we move him on to another club.
     
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  2. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #302 ArsenalJake, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
    I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

    It's not a crime fitting the punishment problem. It's a respect for authority problem.

    The way it is today in football, referees and players seem to operate on an authority model similar to bosses and employees. There is a respect for authority there, but if you disagree with a boss would you plead your case and try to sway his opinion? Of course you would. He's a reasonable person and he may even be a friend outside of the office. If things got heated, would you grab his shirt? You might, but you might also lose your job. It would depend on the circumstance. What kind of mood was he in when you grabbed him, did he feel threatened, etc. It's a judgement call. There might not be any concequences, he might feel your reaction was in the heat of the moment and let it slide.

    What I'm saying is that football referees and players should operate on an authority model similar to judge and defendant. If you're in his courtroom, you're gonna play by his rules. If you're the offending party, you'll have an opportunity to plead your case, but there is a decorum for doing so. If the stakes are high enough, you might even raise your voice as your plead your case. Would you shout and curse at a judge? You might, but you might also expect some sort of punishment. But you would certainly never lay a hand on a judge, because you'd be thrown out of the courtroom.

    By saying, "Hands off. You cannot touch the referee," You change the relationship and elevate the stature of the referee. Would it be such a problem for players to control their compulsion to touch this guy? You already can't touch the ball, now you can't touch the ref. The rest would take care of itself.
     
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  3. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    Played water polo in high school and it was drilled into our heads that any dissension/moaning/even talking to the ref would be a kick out (you sit in the corner for 20 seconds, so your team is a man down, 3 in a game and you are out of the game). This included quietly saying "come on man" or something like that if you disagreed with a call or splashing the water in frustration. I do not know if this is an across the board water polo rule because when I played it wasn't even an official IHSA sport. The team captain and coach could talk to the ref, only during breaks.
     
  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What if we took Fellaini off your hands as well? Would you then sell us De Gea?
     
  5. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That isn't funny.
     
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  6. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of this could be solved by making 3 yellows = 1 red. It gives the ref a lot more wiggle room to police the game.
     
  7. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Why not? We could boil Fellaini for glue to keep Walcott's and Ramsey's hamstrings healthy.

    Edit: I'm tired, so if this is off-color, let it go. It's been a long trip to Zurich.

    Anyone know how I can get tickets for Saturday's game? I tried registering on Arsenal.com, and they said I'm not allowed to buy tickets.
     
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  8. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    no no tell me more. so you are saying we could sell him for parts?
     
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  9. Fifty

    Fifty Member

    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No. No one will willingly give money for him or any part of him. We'll give you money for De Gea, but as part of the transaction, we'll take Fellaini to make the deal more attractive to you, and then use him for parts.
     
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  11. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ooh, that's an interesting idea I never heard before. And it has the three-strikes-and-you're-out resonance. Hmm...
     
  12. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. DeltaSig

    DeltaSig Member

    Mar 7, 2007
    DENVER
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What the hell are you talking about?
    [​IMG]
     
  14. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Yes. I don't think we disagree. Was just saying that you don't need to use the yellow/red cards for this. Using your own analogy...a judge has a scale of punishments available to discourage unwanted behavior...from slamming his gavel and yelling, to throwing people out, to putting them in jail. Refs really only can talk or card with no in between.

    Same with the boss employee. If his only recourse was to fire you or not, people will toe that line as close as possible over time because they know firing a lot of people hurts the boss too. No ref wants to ruin a great game by red carding a player bc he pleaded his case or put an arm on his shoulder. Give them the proper tools to do their job I say--post match discipline would be a great start.

    Refs should watch replays of their matches and every player that touches a ref should for any reason should be fined and that would go along way to stopping it. Those that get many fines should get one game bans, those that get many bans should get multimatch bans etc.

    Over time, the behavior would stop for most players at minimal cost to gameplay and results.
     
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  15. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm absolutely serious. It allows a ref to give more yellow cards earlier in the game, thereby exerting more control over the players, without putting someone on the back foot right away.

    What would basketball be like if they only had 2 fouls? That's what soccer plays with now.
     
  16. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  18. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Incorrect. 2 technical fouls (which is rather like a yellow card) is an ejection in basketball.
     
  19. DeltaSig

    DeltaSig Member

    Mar 7, 2007
    DENVER
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ref's should be in constant communication with the players on the field. If a player is heating up the ref should have a talking to or warn them they are close to a yellow.

    A yellow is a warning to cool down just because you are a yellow does not mean your next foul it a ejection.
     
  20. Boogie_Down

    Boogie_Down Member+

    Jul 7, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who is he? Who is the Heavy Metal Warrior? Is this rhetorical? Come on Homeat, introduce yourself to HMW!
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. BIGHMW

    BIGHMW Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Port Townsend, WA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh God, that shot was taken over 10 years ago, I did that for my (predominantly) female fan base back then, I don't hardly even that much have hair anymore, either up front or even on my head for that matter!!! :)
     
  22. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, but six fouls is an ejection too. There's no equivalent in soccer, plus when you get carded you lose a man.
     
  23. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's OK, we love you anyway you are HMW. :D
     
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  24. BIGHMW

    BIGHMW Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Port Townsend, WA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Getting rid of the hair "up front" was by choice, so I can look more buff, ladies like that kind of "groomed" look now, the hair made me look too "1970s-80s-like", although I have been seriously out-of-shape for the last few years compared to even just 10 years ago, the lack of hair on my head is because my hairline is thinning quite a bit and has been since 2001.
     
  25. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    A card is for a flagrent foul. How many flagrent fouls does a basketball player get in a game. I think most would be ejected after the second flag rent foul. Maybe we should we give penalty kicks for every foul after the fifth foul in a half. Seriously, you don't touch a referee, di Maria got what he deserved. You don't need to give players an extra chance. The solution is to be more strict, not less, make touching a referee a straight red and the behavior would stop.
     
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