yes i agree you have to give Ramos a full season, but it has everything to do with your point, as Jol had already proved his worth......5th for the last two seasons, so in those two years were they underachieving? yes being a hammer i have to listen to spurs fans wittering about still being a great club, also arsenal ,chelsea and man utd fans. the difference is you , the arse and chelsea are justifiably clubs that can challenge for honours ........realisticly no other team will get anywhere near them for years . spurs will never again be a big club. none of the rest will.
How does their league position indicate their fitness levels or the game they have under Ramos? You've taken what I said and gone off on a tangent of little relevance to what was originally stated. And when you're in 4th for the majority of the season and end up 5th, you've underachieved, yes. Spurs have been underachieving for years and I don't really agree that the 'Big Four' is set in stone. Liverpool teeter on the edge most of the time, Everton and Spurs have the squads to challenge and once you break into the CL, you open yourself up to a whole new level of player, whom you could not attract at Uefa Cup level. Liverpool are near collapse if they fail to maintain their CL placing season in and season out, thanks to their owners. The window and opportunity for others is there, if they bottle it, that's their own fault. Spurs are a CB and two quality CM's away from easily being par with Liverpool, if not better.
don't get me wrong i respect your opinion,but it seemed based on ' they put up a good fight against you' ,and lost 3-1! it seems a little patronising,so the players were not fit when they finished 5th? Ramos realistically would be a success with spurs if they finish 5th two seasons in a row. they don't have the money (wages,lets face it thats what players want) or potential(they won't be in the champions league next season) to attract top players. their ambition to get top players in the transfer window resulted in Woodgate. personally i think the spuds just represent all clubs. maybe one day we'll all pass liverpool by as they are on the edge of a financial disaster, but the big three are uncatchable as they get richer and richer and thats a disaster for football. just my opinion.
If you read my (p)review thread for the 07-08 season you'll see that my stance on Spurs and their squad make-up hasn't changed a jot. They can be expected to make mistakes or falter, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory simply because some of their players hold back others in the team. I don't see what's patronising about expecting them to fluff chances or make mistakes when it's par for the course with inferior players. It's certainly not because they are poor, it's because they tend to buy badly a lot of the time. Contrast that with Everton, who have an inferior budget, but tend to buy brilliantly. Once again, this bears no relevance whatsoever to what I said. I don't know why you keep going on about it as if it's attributed to me. Besides which, you're presenting an argument that cannot be countered for at least 1.5 seasons. I think it's more about buying better than they do, first and foremost. They spent £16.5m on Darren Bent when they already had a very good front line, whilst abandoning the midfield and not addressing the CB situation with any proven talent. Wasting so much money on Kaboul is another example - for that much cash they could have gotten a very good PL playing talent. Someone like Distin went to Pompey on a free! They can clearly attract a better calibre of player than about 80% of the prem, they just buy poorly and blow the cash n the process. I don't think you're right saying they have no money for higher class players. Spurs are a well off outfit. Chelsea are a sugar daddy away from anonymity, ourselves and Arsenal are stacked with debt. I really don't think these are the most solid of foundations. But I can take your point on and say it is mostly the truth. Where I don't agree with you is in the suggestion that a Everton, Spurs etc qualifying for the CL for a few seasons running would still render the rest uncatchable. Spurs are 3 quality spine players away from having little excuse for not standing eye-to-eye with Liverpool and breaking into the CL would boost any club's status and open them up to hugher level talent.
Yes, however the vast majority of passes by Tevez were forward passes and I don't think Evra (who will have more time as a defender than the other players) is rated as a top passer, he was just very involved in our possession. Still, Hargreaves didn't do anything really poor in this match - however he was not of the standard of our better passers which is to be expected. Well I've been a fan of his for a good while and I agree. He's especially good at cross-field balls and crosses. However, everything with Hargreaves is time. If he has the time, he can play the ball where he wants to. I think the "problem" with Hargy is that his level of technique has been par or better most of his career in midfield and now he's come to United and he's the least technically proficient midfielder and needs more time on the ball than most. It's blatantly obvious that he's working on releasing the ball quicker and that is good. As to Hargreaves not moving up the field when he breaks free. I think its part of his game. He's got the skill to put the ball where he wants to (not as good as Scholes or Carrick but certainly at a good enough level) once he has the time and in the past it would have been fine for him to buy time and hit a winger or a forward with a long ball. At United though, his job isn't hollywood passes nor creativity so he's just taking awhile in learning exactly what is needed of him and how much his game can adapt to ours.
fair enough i'll take your point of view on board, i was just making the point that in august after two seasons of knocking on the door of the top four every spurs fan was ,as always every august, planning next years celebrations for champions league qualification. i would argue they had more potential then than they do now, but i appreciate that you do not.as with most teams outside the top four you can have a great season then the bubble burst's and peoples expectations these days become unrealistic. and i do apologise as i thought it was you who said 'they looked fitter and hungrier than they had done since the eighties' i'm sorry if it was someone else, probally someone with a soft spot for the spuds.