the experiment - touching the other team's ball.

Discussion in 'Referee' started by ref47, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. ref47

    ref47 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    n. va
    fifa has the great experiment on carding players for touching the ball after the other team has been awarded possession or after a goal is scored. now mls has its own cure for this problem. from the 7-11-05 mls discussion notes:

    "There have been recent confrontations resulting from a player retrieving a ball from the net after his team has scored and a member of the opposing team taking exception to it. The best way to avoid this problem is to get to the ball before the player does."

    do they really think that the ref is close enough to the goal to "get to the ball" first? i don't know about you all, but i try not to be standing in front of the goal when the players are trying to score. in fact, i don't think i have ever been closer to the goal than the player who scored.

    obviously we need to control these situations, but the mls method isn't reality. the initial report from fifa says the refs like the no touch rule and offered a slight modification to allow for situations where the player was clearly not trying to delay the match.
    http://www.fifa.com/en/development/refereeing/index/0,1247,108408,00.html?articleid=108408
    while initially a skeptic on this change, i think the change with the suggested modification could be usefull.
     
  2. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thread title made me giggle.
     
  3. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think it would be unlikely to allow the scored upon keeper to retrieve the ball from the net and send it toward mid-field. That would seem to be sporting unless (at higher levels) it was kicked or thrown far from the center circle. At younger levels I could understand a miss-kick in this situation.
     
  4. Wreave

    Wreave New Member

    May 4, 2005
    Colorado Springs, CO
    ref47, I can see you charging in from the corner of the PA, calling "MINE! MINE", diving at the 6, sliding across the goal line, and ending up in the back of the net, cradling the ball in a fetal position.

    We could bring in gynmastics judges to score the dives. Results would be reported to assessors and factored into promotion and assignments.

    Or, not to get too far off into never never land, you could tell players, "Leave the ball alone when it's the other team's restart, and that includes kickoffs." Hmmm...
     
  5. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    This makes far too much sense - it'll never pass. Beside, it restores a measure of discretion to the referees. Dontcha know, FIFA/IFAB have been trying to make everything zero-tolerance? Witness the offside debacle.
     
  6. njref

    njref Member

    Mar 29, 2003
    New Jersey
    If the pros in a single tournament ended up with 20 yc's, this is proof that the absolute (no exceptions) rule would be a disaster if applied at lower levels of play, where the players (and refs and coaches) are far less aware of rule changes. As always, some refs would apply the rule with common sense, some would not even know the new rule, and others would follow it literally and start handing out YCs like candy on Halloween. Of course, this inconsistency would make everyone crazy.

    With exceptions and common sense, the rule might prove workable.
     
  7. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Actually, the discussion within MLS regarding the referee retrieving the ball is not out of the question. USSF distributes a video example of a fight between players occuring over the ball to professional instructors. In the case demonstrated it is fairly clear that the referee, or assistant, should merely grab the ball himself. No ball, no fight.

    I recall a couple of years ago watching Brian Hall officiate a match. There was a general period of choppy play as both teams became frustrated. Eventually a team scored, with Hall at about the 18. It was no major task for him to simply continue his jog to the goal and grab the ball.

    If you are in good position when the goal is scored, grabbing the ball from the net should not be too difficult, take you too far out of the way, or disrupt the flow of the game, and at the same time completely eliminates the chance for the teams to fight. So long as you retrieve the ball in a casual manner and is not overly noticeable, why not?
     
  8. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you as the referee are anticipating this problem, getting in there to diffuse the situation and retrieve the ball should be fairly straight forward.
     
  9. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Or, they could just penalize Zach Thornton in some way, shape, or form next time he tries to behead a forward who goes to get the ball. That would also help.


    I'm all for diffusing situations, but if a forward wants to get the ball out of the net, it means his team needs another goal, and he's likely to get there pretty quickly.
     
  10. ref47

    ref47 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    n. va
    statesman - it does not appear that either of the teams was intent on getting the ball before hall in your example. surely the keeper is closer to it and most often the goal scorer is closer to it. they will get their first if that is their intent.

    so what you are suggesting is, on every goal scored where the score is 1 goal apart or tied, i need to run into the net (casually) to get the ball, and wreave has me yelling "mine" as i go (hopefully, i don't get a yc for ub on that part :) ). now in reality, i only need to do this if the scoring team has an interest in getting the ball, so i might wait to see if they try and then make my casual, "mine" charge. but, if i wait to see the scoring team's move, i will be late in getting there. so i am back to running into the net on every close game goal. i don't think so.

    and, just instructing the scoring team to leave the ball alone has never proven very sucessful in any of my games or those i have observed. they are intent on getting that ball to the circle for a kick off to have another chance to score. these things happen too quickly to be handled by retrieving the ball and instructing the players to leave it alone. the modified change would go a long way to help in these situations.
     
  11. chrisrun

    chrisrun Member

    Jan 13, 2004
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the new rule would help the flow of the game. It may have to be tweaked a little so as to not be so absolute in cases of true fair play, but as I see it that would be a rare exception to the rule.

    What I think could be implemented right away is that after a goal, only the team scored upon can touch the ball. It is their restart (kickoff) so they should be the only ones touching the ball. I already tell teams this now. If the other team starts complaining that they are wasting time, I would much rather have them complaining to me than trying to grab the ball from the other team. All I have to do is assure them that I am adding time to account for the delay. This usually gets them back in their half quicker, and when the team with the ball hears that I am adding time, the excessive time wasting usually stops as well.

    The MLS directive is pretty much doing this same thing. Once the ref grabs the ball and the teams separate, what does he do with it? He gives it to the team that was scored upon so they can restart. If this rule was in place, the ref wouldn't have to worry about running in to grab the ball, as everyone would know whose ball it is. He could be watching all the players to ensure nothing else is going on, instead of focusing on the back of the net to grab the ball.
     
  12. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Ha, me too.
     
  13. Kryten

    Kryten Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    Kansas City
    I think MLS has missed the boat on these confrontations - Zach Thornton created the problem by assaulting forwards who were merely retrieving the ball from the net. We aren't talking about a single incident, Zach lashes out without reason. Send him off, suspend him, fine him, and the problem goes away.
     

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