I think I remember some provision about not waiving players while they're injured but MLS has rewritten the rules a couple times since then I think. There used to be injured reserve, now only the "season-ending" injury reserve. I think I remember some player being waived this season or last with a minor injury (was it Kingsley?). Probably frowned upon if the player can't go get another contract (USL).
I dunno...we were without Chung for a good chunk of this year, and Henderson, as hard as he works, didn't produce a ton (of course, this also goes to whether the Wank used either or both properly). Leave Chung and Henderson exposed - (1) if one of them is taken, we can pull the other one back. (2) Realistically speaking, there is only one of two teams that would pick either of them to be a player on the team. Chivas has said that they are going to be a spanish based team (Mexico, Central and South America, etc.). They would not pick (or at least, are not likely to pick) Henderson for the purpose of keeping him - so the only reason they would pick him is to trade him, and I question whether there are tons of teams out there dying to trade for Henderson at this point of his career. (3) That leaves Real Salt Lake. Are they realistically going to build their team around an aging midfielder who has not produced much in the way of offense in the past couple of years? Especially considering who their coach is? I could be wrong, but I think that this is a good gamble to take.
Yeah, you're probably right about this. It will be interesting to see what happens. I think we learn the protection list next Tuesday.
I dunno...we were without Chung for a good chunk of this year, and Henderson, as hard as he works, didn't produce a ton (of course, this also goes to whether the Wank used either or both properly). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ yes we were without chung for alot of games and if you will look back we won or tied alot of them. One of the reason we weren't successful is because hankinson refused to hold henderson or chung accountable. He used them the same for three years straight.For three years straight they had no competition at their positions not because there wasn't anyone but because hankinson had a blind eye to their play game after game after game. I don't think either team willl pick them up so they might be safe to go on the list if colorado needs to put some out there. But what happens if they are put out there and are not pick up? Do they just come back on colorado roster or are they put in waiver draft?
This whole way the league works is a crock!!!! Teams not able to acquire players themselves and beg the league on bended knee, and if they are not on the coast, tough luck. I don't understand why it is this complicated. Why is it necessary for the MLS to be run this way with so many different kinds of player designations, all which seem to be very gray in nature. It shouldn't matter if they are SI SP or DUD, if they can help our team, we should protect them, and if not, let them go. I can't believe we would protect Trembly and risk losing Chung or Henderson, regardless of their age. I know that Trembly is P40, but that is so much crap. That P40 is the only reason that Trembly has remained on the team, and if that is the case, why keep him at all. This sounds like so much mumbo jumbo. I don't know why anyone would want to be a general manager!!!! I'm a P 57 and I haven't been protected since I reached puberty. It ought to be like any other league's expansion draft, you keep the players you want, and let go the ones you don't. Can you see the Broncos keeping a player because he is under 13 with a left handed mother from Istanbul who just happens to have dated Dan Counce's unmarried twin sister. Considering how much the draft has affected the Rapids in the past, who cares. Let's keep Cannon and start all over with everybody else, and yes I am smoking the new low carb pot!!!
If there's a debate between Chung and Hendo, for me it's easy. Dump Cadillac Chung; he doesn't play defense. In a league like MLS and in a city where the league doesn't do us any favors we really can't afford a luxury player.
In response to my previous post where I got a little ranty, I am just discouraged at times that managing a team seems to be so complex. It should be about player performance alone, not on their seniority, geographical origins, age, or native language. The rules of engagement seem so abstract that one would might almost believe that they make them up after the fact, sort of like the way I used to write a paper for school first, and then make up the outline later that I theoretically was operating from when I wrote the paper. To constrict a team into keeping someone like ZiZi or Seth for reasons other than their performance would seem to really handcuff the coach and general manager. These kinds of rules lead to the ridiculous situations we have had here and elsewhere, where a player with no performance at all is making in the 100's of thousands of dolllars, while another young American player performing at a higher level is making 25.000. That can't help but cause disharmony in the locker room. There will always be high paid players not earning their keep, but when I evaluate someone like Darryl Powell, it should be based solely on his performance, did he play considerably better than other players on the team at his position. It should not be based on the fact that he is a senior international, a P 40, or a P 1/3rd. We may end up with frequent mediocrity in management by coaches and general managers solely because highly qualified people might not want to take jobs that are so obtuse. I pray that the new coach and hopefully new general manager can take this team and manage it in a way so that everyone feels important to the whole, and everyone believes as a group in what the team is trying to accomplish. If that can happen, we will have a team here we can be proud of.
I don't think it's that complex -- at least, not any moreso than it is for any manager anywhere on the planet. There are always external forces that make things complex. The question is how well a manager (coach, in MLS) can work with these issues. I think Gansler is the best example of this over time in MLS, and Peter Nowak is certainly off to a good start -- note how he certainly didn't bow to pressure with Adu. I've actually written a long article about how the Rapids would do well do look at what's happened with coaches in DC, KC and LA this year: http://www.rapidsfan.com
I now know why this team does not do well. There are fans like you who know nothing about the game. Last year you were all barking "Get rid of Fraser," and now you are doing the samething to Chung. The guy got here in 2002 and earned two consecutive years of Best 11 and was a candidate for MVP in 2002. The team does poorly all around offensively this year, he is injured part of the season, and you are barking again for his head. You people are pathetic. Try to remember that Chung is a midfielder, not a forward. He has been outstanding for this team and probably will be for a couple more years. I am so happy for Fraser. He showed all of you how little you know about the game. I know that if this team loses Chung to another team, you guys will for sure be punished.
... right, because fan opinions have such a big impact on team performance. Who's doing anything to Chung? The whole point of this thread is to share opinions on who should be protected, exposed, or otherwise moved as a part of the league expansion. Barking for his head? Simmer down, Sally. This is just a group of fans discussing the value of various players, relative to one another. Should player A be protected instead of player B? Does losing player C hurt more or less than losing player D? It's so horrible to suggest that someone on the team might be more valuable going forward than Chung? I don't think anyone here has forgotten that, which isn't to say that "us people" aren't still pathetic. On the other hand, midfielders are often tasked with coming back through the midfield to help with defense. Chung's not exactly a guy who hustles back down the left side to help on the defensive side of the ball [see Henderson, see Spencer]. Sometimes he can't be bothered to make an effort for balls in the middle third either. I'm sure Robin Fraser lays awake at nights thinking "I sure showed those guys in Colorado, didn't I? Oh wait... they were the league's best defense this year." I think we did just fine in the backfield without him and was glad for his success with the Crew. But you're right -- Chung has, at times, been outstanding for this team. When he gets it lined up just perfectly, he's got a cannon for a leg -- and he's known league-wide as a fair player. I like all that, but he's not perfect either. He's got no right foot to speak of, he's layed off of 50/50 balls in the middle-third this year, and he's often getting his pocket picked for holding the ball one touch too many. Then again, I'm one of those fans that knows so little about the game, so I look forward to hearing who you think stays and goes during the off-season.
Chung has a big salary. Fraser is about 37 and got the Rapids some good draft picks. It's not that simple.
The way you do speak sounds as if you did forget what he has done for this club. The comment you made about him playing defense is also to say that Pablo plays no offense. He has also been a midfielder this past year. Maybe we should talk about not protecting him but one thing I would not do is put my best players available for selection by other teams. These opinions you speak of are ludicrous and should not be mentioned. By the way, I believe the fans opinions can make a difference. We also got a low draft pick for Fraser.
Got a 2nd round 04 pick (Gregorio) and a conditional 05 pick. Had Gregorio chosen MLS it might have worked better. What would you call low? What's Fraser's salary? I don't like the trade in retrospect, but I think Kotschau and Borchers are adquate as central defenders. They're near the bottom of the list of upgrades. Would Fraser have had such a successful season in Colorado? No Chad Marshall to partner with. I just want to hear a defense of Chung's play during the playoffs. Is that good enough for what we want? What's his salary? I'd keep him for leadership and versatility. But wouldn't play him 90 minutes every game next season. Wouldn't put him on my top 8 list of protected players. But since 12 get to be protected, he doesn't have much competition. The SI rule hurts, so I'm inclined to leave him off.
Is it really a matter of what he's done for the club or what he will do for the club? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- let's start with ... what has he done this year??? To be realistic if he is protected i am sure the new coach will have him come off the bench or will not have him be a 90 min player anymore so they will be looking for a left mid...
It has been mentioned that Chung makes a big salary, well he deserves it . When you make best 11 three times I think that means you are good enough to receive that kind of money. As I recall he was only the fourth highest paid player on this team. Spencer made 150,000 more than Chung last year and the only thing that seperated the two were PK's. I am not taking anything away from Spencer, but that is a pretty big salary difference. The fact is by paying Chung his salary with guys like Spencer and Powell leaving Chung's salary is hardly an issue. You have to pay good players and Chung has certainly earned it. You also need some good veterans on the team to bring the young guys along and Chung from what I have seen at the few trainings I have gone to definitely has their respect. Guys like Powell made way more and produced way less. Other posts that I have read suggest Hendo over Chung, well Hendo is coming off two consecutive bad years and only makes 10,000 less than Chung. Running around and looking like your working hard, but not accomplishing anything does not exactly make a good player.(Hendo) As for his contribution off the field he definitely does a lot but you need to do it on the field and that has not happened in two years. This year offensively we sucked to put it mildly, but I don't blame the players I blame Hankinson for that. I went to a few practices and this guy had the players all over the place , no one knew where to go or where to be. I believe that is why we were so poor. No organization!!! The veteran players were constantly arguing with Hanki. At those practices I saw several players frustrated with what was going on. Look, what makes me mad is that you suggest that ,in so many words ,that Chung is done which just isn' t so. He had injuries this year. His first since he has been here. He played 7 games less than Hendo and ended up I believe 1 point behind him in stats. I could see if Hendo kicked his a-- statistically maybe, but that's not what happened. I have seen way more loyalty to De La Torre who did NOTHING for this club then I have seen for Chung. Two best elevens in three years , an MVP of the league nod (only player in the league that year to do double digits in both categories)would not make me leave him out in the cold only to come back and haunt me.
May I suggest paragraphs? The thing is, you didn't name one player in there that I want back next year. Expansion draft strategy is all about value. If a player is overpriced vs. the cap then he won't be taken. So it's better to leave him exposed and protect the cheap young talent you want around for the next few years. But I don't care if he is protected, cause there are only about 8 players on the senior roster I want back next year anyway.
I am not sure why we are going so crazy about Chung. I am a great fan of his, as well as Hendo. He plays cleanly, works hard, has a great shot, a weak right foot, and doesn't play a lot of defense. I could understand protecting him. My primary concern about Hendo and Chung are that they are older players. If we are starting over as a team and trying to build from the ground up, we don't want our foundation built on players that may be gone in 1 or 2 years. I agree that they likely have a positive impact on the young players on the team, and if possible, should be kept around for that reason. I do not think that their performance the last two years merits starting and playing 90 minutes every match. I would much rather see them go a strong 45 at the beginning, or come in during the last 30 to provide a spark if the offense is bogged down. As opposed to Powell and ZiZi, they have remained relatively healthy, and usually contribute positively to our attack. As we have said before, this team including Brian and Hendo would probably look radically different with a system and coach they believed in.
Mentioning the need for seasoned veterans is a valid point. Who will be left next year to lead; Cannon, Mastro, Chung, Hendo, and Kotch. Borchers is still young, and I would never count Beckerman or Trembly as veterans who could lead the team. So that leaves us with very little leadership or veteran experience, valid reasons for holding onto Chung AND Hendo.
Swedcrip I notice you are from the Tampa area, so I take it that you have not seen the Rapids in person but rather on T.V. Have you been Appointed the new coach since you speak as if you are the one now calling the shots as to who you want protected? Smugie you really think that Zizi and Powell helped us when they actually played? You must be crazy along with Swedi.