Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Nov 14, 2023.
Sauerbrunn too, but writing has been on the wall for some of these folks…
Sauerbrunn was not on the World Cup roster due to injury. But I get your point.
They are really great, other then Naomi Girma, if you want to continue relying heavily on players who were primarily developed to play the US’s patented direct style of play. Midfield was never really a priority for the US. The ball spending less time in the midfield has always been a strategy of US teams. Of course, something the European teams take more seriously when it comes to the technical and tactical part of the game.
The US fan approach has been if it ain’t broke no need to fix it. Problem is it was breaking and now it is broke. Therefore, enters Emma Hayes with the difficult task of turning things around. I believe she would not have taken the job if she couldn’t do it her way.
I think we are going to see many surprises as to players selected as well as even some position changes as will. Expect most of her players, if not all of the players she picks will be able play several positions.
Who had the most rookie goals?...because three goals seems kinda low, right? By way of comparison, MLS, which is way less reliant on the draft, regularly has a rookie fresh out of the NCAA pushing up near double digit goals. This year Duncan McGuire had 13 goals in 29 games (just 17 starts).
Obviously NWSL only plays 2/3 the games as MLS. However, a midfielder with 3 goals in 20-ish games seems kinda average.
Yeah, I forgot about O'Hara and Mewis because in my mind I had already written them off the NT. Maybe they'll be back -- but I kind of doubt it.
I always thought Sanchez had the talent, but she's been to quite a few camps and rarely starts.
Maybe she doesn't pair up well with the other starters? Don't know, but she's had plenty of opportunities.
This is not true. You characterize all of Europe with a non-direct style of play. In fact there is a German player who just criticized her top WSL side because they are too focused on their style of play. She said in Germany they focus on winning, no matter how they need to get it done.
The saying that the US play direct is also old and tiresome. We don't play direct. We play fast. So did Australia.
Alyssa Thompson had 4 goals. I assume she was a rookie.
Haven't followed NWSL much this past year.
Sanchez's problem is her poor defending. Vlatko mentioned that she needed to improve on it.
Nighswonger is a left back. Three goals is impressive for a rookie left back.
Also, the lowest goals scored record by a team was back in 2018 with 12 goals for the entire season. Yikes!
Some folks are going to be really disappointed when some players left off this roster show back up on rosters closer to the Olympics. Also I'm not sure how much input, if any, Hayes had into these call-ups.
I have no knowledge of what goes on behind-the-scenes, but I'm going to take some other factors into account. The previous few matches after the WWC, while not a part of an official victory tour given the team's finish at the WWC, could have been keeping to tradition (and taking into account Kilgore's limited time in the position of head coach) and kept primarily to the WWC roster. This is the point in the calendar where usually we have something closer to an ID camp, and these matches could be serving that purpose. Additionally, there is a USWNT CBA-mandated rest period for veterans that is a minimum of 6 weeks between the FIFA windows of December and January/February. The next FIFA window doesn't open until mid-February for the CONCACAF W Gold Cup, but if there is an as-of-yet-unannounced January camp, then some veterans could simply be on their rest period, or some players are just getting a longer one.
I'm not saying all the veterans left off will be back in camp later, but I'm certainly not saying yet that we're moving away from all of them either.
I see it as a great opportunity to compare the young players against each other and see who has it in them to compete at the Olympics.
I hope Morgan is off the roster for good, but even if she is not, they already know what she does. So see how Shaw, Fishel, Korbin Albert, Thompson, DeMelo, Coffey, etc do. Let them sink or swim and bring the best to the Olympics along with veterans who can play at a high level.
I just saw this Athletic article based on the press conference with Kilgore on Hayes' input into this roster (and rosters moving forward) as well as the purpose of this camp.
Pulling a couple of highlights on Hayes' role (and will put roster notes from the article in the other thread):
Kilgore on Hayes' role: “We’re sharing information, knowledge sharing. There’s a provisional roster that comes out first, which I prepared. I was able to share my ideas with Emma. Emma’s able to share her ideas with me and we picked this roster collaboratively, and we will do so moving forward. I will have opportunities to go to London and spend time with Emma in person and hopefully vice-versa.... And in terms of working with Emma in the future, I’m most excited to talk more football, to continue to listen and learn about how she wants us to play. And those are all things that will happen more and more in the future when she’s not as tied to Chelsea. In the interim we’re working on the overall environment, what it should look like when she comes.”
Crocker on possible Hayes' appearance in the December camp: "We’re working some final details around her schedule. Being really respectful of Chelsea, it would be an ideal situation for her to come and meet the players and staff and we’re very hopeful that that can happen.”
On an interesting note, before Hayes was even hired, Kilgore had already picked Hayes as a top coach to study, fulfiling a requirement of earning her USSF Pro license.
The Athletic also has an analysis article up about the 3 changes that need to happen under Hayes.
1. Optimizing style of play to players
2. Growing the talent pool
3. Locker room harmony
I think I misread this, but would probably need to see more context of the quote to know for sure. On another read, I think he was just talking about helping Hayes transition into the role and come into a camp early before officially starting the job, but not specifically the December camp.
The issue with this statement is that it is a "backward-looking statement," made in the past tense.
IOW, "Once Upon A Time," NWSL developed these players, and attracted the best of the best players from overseas to come play stateside. Is that happening NOW, or are the best of the best choosing to go elsewhere?
The other issue is that, much of the coaches in that league have backwards views about how to manage a team, and how to manage a game, and how to manage a tournament. See: Andonovski, who was SUPPOSEDLY one of the [snicker] better managers in that league before coaching the USWNT.
Meanwhile, other nations have better managers and better ideas about the game. Other sides don't have an allergy to possession and position play, and play together, even if they don't yet have as much talent as the US.
As a matter of a "forward-looking statement," are the USWNT receiving the BEST coaching and teaching in THEIR league, or are the best ideas about the game now overseas?
[Think about how moronically Route One the USWNT were, and how they were "9 players waiting for one to do something" despite having more talent than most.]
Are they playing WITH and AGAINST the best of the best worldwide NOW, or are the best of the best going elsewhere?
So yeah, "Once Upon A Time," The NWSL made the best players with the best coaches work to build the best sides in the international game. Going forward, is that still the case?
I dunno. We shall see.
You made some massive leaps offering no support to back it up. Have you watched Gotham play? How about North Carolina Courage? They both play beautiful possession soccer. The NWSL is not a direct league. Yes, they play fast. Fast doesn't mean direct. But what is wrong with direct if you win? Isn't that the purpose of the game?
One concern I have about Emma (although I applaud the hire) is how slow Chelsea plays. Their center backs pass the ball back and forth so much it is silly. They also waste Sam Kerr. She could do so much more in a different style of play.
Please share who all of these great coaches are in other leagues?
And, who are the 'most coaches' with a backwards view?
People just assume that the women's game in Europe is the same as the men's Premier League. It is not. Lyon doesn't play any competition all year accept a few Champions League games (if they make it deep enough - last year they did not). The WSL has the same 3-4 good teams on an annual basis. The rest of the league is weak.
Here, I'll cut/paste your statement:
..."Let's look at a few players who have developed through NWSL:"
That, is a past-tense, backwards-looking statement.
How did 1990s Big Ten-style, Route One puntball work out this past WWC?
There's a reason why no one on the mens' side plays that way any more, yet the USWNT were reduced to 1990s Big Ten-style Route One puntball...
...Then they promptly got their asses kicked, and went home early.
What, exactly are you on about? You made mention in the past tense of what NWSL did, not what they are doing now.
And yet, both CONCACAF giants in the WWC got their asses royally kicked by more modern-playing European sides.
This is largely down to inferior coaching, and inferior ideas about the game in CONCACAF. The results at the international level do not lie.
[BTW, WTF is the "men's Premier League?]
Ya know, I just went and checked, and my memory seems to be correct-- we still haven't lost a game in that tournament in which we "got our asses kicked." We've won WWCs while conceding more goals than we did this time...
Good conversation on the contrast between league play in Europe vs the US, so I'll just leave this here since I went and did the homework:
Alex Morgan — 2 goals + 1 assist in 15 World Cup and Olympics games (14 as a starter) since scoring 5 goals in the 13-0 thrashing of Thailand in the USA's opening game at the 2019 World Cup (Morgan didn't play the next game against Chile)
Please carry on
My past tense was used because the original message talked about development. How is that not past tense when we talk about current players development in certain leagues? I also talked about the current Gotham and NC Courage examples in a current state.
As noted by the previous poster, we did not get our asses kicked. We did not lose a single game.
I do not know which WC games you were watching but I missed the 'Big Ten' route 1 soccer you apparently saw. But also, Vlatko was the coach. He does not represent the US style. I do not think you will find anyone here who thinks he was a good coach for the USWNT.
Well, you really don't know what you are talking about. Smith only played in NWSL for 3 years, Girman played for 2 years, Shaw/Moultrie just recently turned 19/18 respectively and regularly palyed in NWSL for 2 years, and Nighswonger is a rookie. They are not developed in the past, they are being developed by the league now.
Moreover, it is brain-dead to treat all European teams played a same style. Sweden by no means played a "beautiful" possession game, they did not have advantage in possession in either their victories over USWNT nor Japan, they won because their nail-biter defense and luck. The truth is they could lose either match very easily if one or two thing had not gone their way. Canada got knocked out by an Australian side that lives on transition and diagnoal ball movement, it's wild to say they got kicked by more modern-playing European sides, espeically given their victory over Ireland (a very physical or heinous side which emphasizes body contact and speed over everything else) in their only fixture against a European side in the tournament.
Did they win, and not tell me about it?
Did Andonovski get the contract extension he earned by winning it?
Thanks for coming to that understanding.
Because players that won the latest WWC by and large play in different leagues than NWSL. With better coaching and better ideas.
Really? Did the USWNT win the tournament?
Apparently, USSF thought highly of him, or else they wouldn't have hired him.
And again, wasn't he some sort of highly-valued coach in the [snicker] NWSL prior to flushing the USWNT down the toilet?
[Why yes. Yes he was.]