Let me add to this: Nevada’s Clark County School District, which serves 320,000 students, is one of many school systems taking a scattershot approach to staff shortages by trying several solutions at once. In hopes of shrinking its roughly 1,300 teaching vacancies, the district has raised the starting teacher salary by $7,000 and is offering a $4,000 “relocation bonus” to new teachers who move from out of state or more than 100 miles. In an interview, Superintendent Jesus F. Jara said the district is also granting employees a “retention bonus” of up to $5,000 for staying in their jobs. Great, more pay and a relocation bonus. Awesome. Now, let's look at the jobs. I am certified as a US Government/Civics teacher, along with History, which is broadly, history. This was the same when I was in Tennessee as well. What does that mean? US Gov. is either a 11th or 12th class. Sometimes it is a stand alone, sometimes it is parred with Economics. I learned, just before I was leaving Tennessee, that if I had had an Economics certification, I could pretty much have had a job anywhere. Here in Wisconsin, not as important for some reason. Anyway, for History, that could be any history a school district has. All will have US History and World History (sometimes called World Civilizations). But there are other History classes: European, Modern, Ancient, and what ever a school district chooses to add based on district requirements. Regarding the grades, that too, will depend on the district. Typically World History/Civ. will be a 9th or 10th grade class (9th grade around here) and US History will be a 10th or 11th grade class (10th around here). Other history classes are likely to be upper level (11th or 12th grade) for varying requirements. Again, dependent on district (and/or schools) But that is not all. USGov and History fall under the broad area of Social Studies. That includes Geography (often called Human Geography) and Psychology, Sociology, along with the afore mentioned Economics. Geography is typically a 9th grade class were it is taught (World Civ and Human Geography can be interchangeable as a lot of the topics overlap). Economics, in my experience, is always a 12th grade class. So that is what falls under the social studies heading. ("English" also has a arena of subjects that fall under it's heading.) Now, what has Clark County posted? https://ccsd.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en# Ignoring the poor searching, I'll take a look at one posting. https://ccsd.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobdetail.ftl?job=220008L0&tz=GMT-05:00&tzname=America/Chicago 2022-2023 HISTORY TEACHER-ARBOR VIEW HS Okay, history. LICENSES AND CERTIFICATIONS: Must possess or be able to acquire by time of appointment to the position, a teaching license issued by the Nevada Department of Education. Must be certified in relevant subject area. When applying for a certificated licensed position, candidates must meet the minimum qualifications as listed on the appropriate position vacancy announcement. Out of District Applicants-REQUIRED EMPLOYMENT HISTORY: Please ensure that a complete three (3) year work history in the “Experience and Credentials” section of the application is provided, including periods of unemployment, schooling and volunteer work. Primary Location LAS VEGAS-ARBOR VIEW HS Work Locations ARBOR VIEW HS 7500 WHISPERING SANDS DRIVE LAS VEGAS 89131 Job HS Teacher Organization Clark County School District Day Job Job Posting Aug 1, 2022, 2:45:15 PM Unposting Date Ongoing Great. History. Now, they are trying to recruit somebody like me. I can meet their needs. But I don't want to teach 9th graders. What in this posting says I won't? What history courses are offered. I noticed in the search that a science teacher will teach Physics. But what about a history teacher? Unknown. Now, how about another? https://ccsd.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobdetail.ftl?job=220006XT&tz=GMT-05:00&tzname=America/Chicago 2022-2023 Social Studies Teacher - BASIC HS Awesome. Social Studies in general. And this posting has even lower requirements. Now, this is not unusual. Posting for social studies topics are typically like this. As are English. But it is not much of an incentive to attract teachers if we are not told what subjects are available to teach. Part of this is a problem with the way schools are set up. Part of the is they way certifications are given. Part of this is way degrees are given. But no matter the background, if a school or district wants a high school teacher, they need to post the specifics of what is available, not just a general "history" or "social studies." This is not unique to Clark County. Even around here, it is the same. And I'm not even talking Milwaukee Public Schools. You want to recruit teachers? Sure pay is one thing. And school safety is another. But what ********ing subject will I be teaching?
School has 40 students and 2 classes. But they only have one teacher. They advertise for another teacher. No applicants. So they remove the listing and put all 40 kids in one class. Now there is no teacher shortage. Data!
Adding to my post, above, I should also note that many places want an advanced degree in a specific field. So a Master's in US History (or likely something more specific). Or a Master's in the US Constitution (Government). Awesome. But even with that background, the posting is still for Social Studies.
?? You know the game. If you've taught before, you don't expect to see any of that. There's no need for it, because you already know you're getting the worst and youngest. You're new at a high school, you will be teaching the 9th graders, because you're the new teacher. You're not getting the elective courses in your field, because they're already somebody else's pet course. You'll get the larger classes in general. Now, some chairs will spread those 9th graders around a bit so nobody has to deal with them all day, but some places just dump 'em on the new teacher. Older teachers also lobby to have certain students kept out of their classrooms. You'll get the planning period nobody else wants (probably first or second period- it's too early in the day to need a break, and the rest of the day is long af). When I taught in Athens, GA, there was an Indian (dot) math teacher who told me to my face with no apparent malice in his voice or face that he interviewed the parents of any Black student who wanted to be in his advanced classes (the school was mostly Black, but had the largest White population of the secondary schools. They were trying as hard as they could to keep one elem/middle school White enough to stop new White residents from going private). This, at a school where I was hired in part so that the Black students would model my conduct, speech and carriage. Instead, they ended up concluding that "HE gets to teach the good kids while YOU have to teach us (so I must not be all that much of an example to follow)" The struggle is real..
Yes I do. But others may not. Which is a problem with the hiring process. But I also know teachers who want to teach a particular subject, not caring about the grade. My first teaching position, a guy moved down to Arizona and applied at the school. He already had 20 years teaching experience and asked to teach 9th grade history (I believe it was Human Geography). He asked because he loved the subject. Personally, if US Government was a 9th grade class, I'd take it because I love teaching the subject.
It is how the school/district want to classify acceptable class size, at the least. There are a ton of metrics, but if the school/district want to change the needed teachers, as chad indicates, then the problem is solved, and the district saves money.
Everything except "blogger who made a graph but doesn't link directly to source data and dismisses facts as anecdotes" points to the Kuhnian moment here. But that does capture beautifully the way in which several people here think that people in education need to have pseudo-scientists come in with their "data" to help us dumdums understand how what we are seeing isn't real.
This thread from Reddit seems like an anecdote from the yet-to-be-written history of the long slow death of public education in the future Confederate States of America: Active shooter instructor said that if we aren’t willing to die for our students, we are in the wrong profession Could also be a post in a "The Rise of the New Spartanism" thread, if we had one (and we probably should).
Does that link apply to the town/city police also? Or do they have to wait until the Active Shooter Instructor dies for the kids?
I would like to remind you that neither Sandy Hook nor Columbine were in the CSA. And I have also been saying this, or something similar, for myself for about 10 years. This is not a CSA issue. This is a gun rights issue. This is a lack of care about kids issue.
Um, what? I'm arguing that the normalization of school shootings and the ongoing traumatization of schoolchildren and teachers is a sign of how dysfunctional our society is, as well as a warning of what sort of dystopian hellscape a future USA will be if we don't reverse course. Honestly bemused at what you're taking exception with.
In other news, teacher movement in the last week has been bananas to watch. One friend just went from teaching middle school in a declining district to a position in high school at the top college prep in Chicago. I'm getting emails directly from other fancy private schools in LA asking if I'd consider moving schools this week.
I "liked" your post for passing along the information, not because I'm happy that qualified, competent educators are being systemically pushed out of public education. It all seems like a slow-motion nightmare.
The stereotype is what you said - Confederate States of America. Basically, my argument is that putting any label on it other than gun rights/lack of care of students distract from the problem.
Yes, it is. But I would ask, how much do you think teachers (public school employees should be paid)? I'm not trying to be snippy here, but as somebody who is not a teacher, what value do you place on teachers' pay? How much more would you be willing to tax yourself in order to raise teacher pay? (I'm focusing on pay as just one issue. There are many, many issues.)
What am I 'putting a label' on? You seem to be conflating a rhetorical point--regarding the dysfunctional social order the Right is trying to force on us--with a specific discussion of school shootings and the root cause of such. You'll note, the Reddit thread I shared was about crazy things teachers & staff were told in 'Active Shooter Training'. I posted this in the "Education" thread rather than the "Another Mass Shooting" thread for a reason.
More than they are. My Father is a retired Elementary Principal who still lives in my hometown--he was just here for a visit this past weekend. He was just talking about this--the starting pay for a teacher at the school I attended and he used to work at is $38,000/year. That's with a Master's degree, I believe. Even in my hometown (rural Nebraska) that's not a living wage. He said any teacher trying to start a family on that salary would need a second job. Teacher pay has been far too low for too long--lots of politicians and members of the public have used the "They get Summers off!" excuse to justify this reality. Meanwhile, the long hours put in "off the clock" before & after school and on weekends gets ignored. No offense, but that ship has sailed. FWIW, I'm a public librarian (and child of two former teachers/educators--Mom taught for years; Dad was a teacher before moving into administration) so my salary largely comes from the same property taxes that teachers in my local community are largely funded by. I'm also a resident of the same county I work in/for. Our taxes are pretty low for this area (our county has traditionally been more fiscally conservative than much of northern Virginia). Taxpayers in this jurisdiction could easily afford to pay more. And this is an affluent area; in areas where local property tax revenue couldn't support a living wage, the lack of sufficient State or Federal subsidies are catastrophic. Well, I was focusing on one of the other issues. Why you took exception to that is beyond me.
So, fill this non-teacher in - 1) Is there a nationalwide teacher shortage, primary and secondary alike, or is the shortage in certain areas? 2) Presumably, this has been building for a while, because supply/demand doesn't change overnight. 3) But to question #2, has something recent accelerated the supply/demand imbalance? Thanks in advance.
38k with a Masters? From my experience looking around, I would think that would be w/o. That said, with a Master's would probably only be low 40s. Not much of a difference for somebody with an advanced degree. (Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if the 38k was with a Master's) I was asking because I am always curious as to what people think teachers should be paid. So many say "more," but what does that mean? The district I grew up starts somewhere around 90k and tops somewhere around 130k (as of a few years ago). But the teachers still can't afford to live in the city in which they teach (most houses in the city are over 1m. I haven't checked rental prices) and have a family without some significant income from the spouse/elsewhere. And that is not going to be unique to the city I grew up in. IMO, in a district like that, teachers should be paid a starting salary of something in the range of 150k, and have the growth up to something like 400k or 500k (after being in the profession for 25 years or so). Elsewhere there should be similar pay rates. I had forgotten that. Didn't know that. This is what I always found interesting in my city growing up. It was a fairly typical CA city - socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Yet for the last 4 elections I lived there, we raised takes on ourselves to support the school district. Subsequently, there was an 8 figure bond approved to build a second floor for part of the school, and update the school to earthquake standards. Here I was talking about pay as opposed to other areas that need funding. Buildings, technology, food, etc. My objection to the gun/school shooting part was the distraction of bringing in the CSA. I say distraction because at the school I taught last year, we had one day which was very violent (4 fights in school, two outside, and somebody fired off a gun outside the school). There was talk amongst some of the teachers about bringing a gun to school and keeping it in their car. This is in urban Milwaukee, and we all grew up and live in Milwaukee (or similar environments), or the near in-suburbs (apart from one teacher). Additionally, when I was in Memphis, teaching in the 'hood, I had active shooter training. Now, I feel for that teacher. We should not be in the situation we are in as teachers, and in schools. There is a general lack of support for teachers and what we do and what we have to deal with, particularly coming out of the pandemic. Teachers being safe in schools are just one of them.[/quote][/QUOTE]
I asked this question up thread somewhere as well. Around there, it is mostly primary that is having an issue. https://www.washingtonpost.com/podc...-school-with-a-catastrophic-teacher-shortage/ Pandemic Politics The way people are yelling at teachers for doing out jobs and at school board meetings.