The Education Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by saosebastiao, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Japan closed all the schools, and to my surprise I googled and 70% of Japanese mothers are working. I guess we should ask them about that experience.
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Schools in the county are closing, when is the question. They have been asking about electronics availability and sending COVID19 info every day. Rumor is that it will start tomorrow, for at least two weeks.

    Luckily my employer is preparing for remote work but my guess is that I will still have to show up a couple of days per week for a couple of hours.

    The question is how many businesses will be able to make similar arrangements for a big portion of their workforce. Retail and tourism are screwed in the near future.
     
  3. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My kids don’t necessarily look like they have a disability when they are out of their chairs.

    I have met people with your attitude.
     
    xtomx repped this.
  4. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I have to say that both of you are right. Where I teach, I assume when students have accomodations, they deserve them, and if that means I walk across campus to hand deliver an exam to the staffer who supervises my student in a distraction-free environment where the student gets 50% more time or whatever, no problem. Every single time, it has been legit.

    But thankfully, I don't teach at places that cater to the "meritocracy." It's not uncommon for kids from wealthy suburbs (like where my brother lives in Chicago) for parents to pay off doctors for disability status and, perhaps more horrifying, prescriptions to Adderal, which is reputed to have performance enhancing benefits even for those who don't need it. This is in high school, and when they go to college, most of these kids get accomodations they don't need.
     
    Ismitje, russ, stanger and 2 others repped this.
  5. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    That is why schools fail. I heard all that whining from parents today when four districts in our area closed. The thing is parents don't train their kids, they expect school to do it. In low SES schools this is especially problematic as the norms and mores in low SES communities are not the same as in a public school.

    So I don't feel sorry for the parents at all. I will still be holding virtual classes and the kids that don't have home internet got packets of work. I will also be available to them through electronic communication email/text messages.

    I think this probably pushes the electronic delivery of education, how much forward is probably correlated is how bad will this thing get. I mean there have been unprecedented efforts to control the spread of this virus and now we just have to wait and see.
     
    Auriaprottu and russ repped this.
  6. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    It really seems petty to me to be all that concerned over how long a student takes on a test. I mean if extra time will help the kid get a better score, I am going to get them an extra time modification. It is not of particular importance for them to be able to do it really fast. Speed can come with reps, I am more concerned with understanding what is going on and accuracy. The whole concept of assessment is to determine level of mastery. I want an accurate picture and if it takes a particular kid longer that is fine. It is pretty easy for me to get time modification for a kid and I fail to see why it matters.

    Anecdotally I don't see much correlation in standardized test finishing order and test score order.
     
    Auriaprottu, soccernutter and stanger repped this.
  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    You're arguing against tests that are set up for time pressure, which is fine, but that's a different discussion.
     
    Auriaprottu repped this.
  8. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to jump on the testing/IEP discussion, I have worked in a school which is 100% IEP/504, for all kinds of reasons. Some of them had extended testing, legit, but talking to them it seemed like it was unnecessary. And there are all kinds of reasons why students need extended time to test. Just because of how they look or talk does not mean they do not need it. And I have run into discussions where it was given in order to benefit the student, but it was not clear it was absolutely necessary.

    But I also agree that it is abused, and that it is known to be abused, particularly in wealthier schools.

    But when somebody has an IEP, my default is to believe that it is legit.
     
    dapip, stanger and JohnR repped this.
  9. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Man, these yoots are gonna get hooked up this spring

    sd5r1.jpg
     
  10. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    My kid's Israeli professor: "You Americans write essays and show that you volunteered and all the stuff for college applications. You were 17, what did you ever do that mattered? In Israel, it's grades and test scores. We don't need to know any more than that for 17 year olds."

    He also reported that after his adviser read the first draft of his dissertation, the adviser told him, "The only thing that is holding this paper together is the staple."

    Tough crowd.
     
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  11. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is a slightly different situation - as an Israeli, he is required to spend time in the military and perform some kind of national duty.
     
  12. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last year I had an 8th grade student -- child of two academics -- who was fantastic. She did great. Always top scores. Math class.

    Last month of school year, her parents ask to have her evaluated for a support plan going into high school. There was literally no evidence seen by the teachers that this straight A student needed more time like ever. Or that she couldn't concentrate. In fact, all of our evidence countered it.

    Observer comes in, and student acts like a total scatterbrain, putting on a show for the observer.

    There are LEGIT IEPs and 504s, of course. No one disputes that.

    But there is also straight up abuse by the affluent and knowledgeable to exploit this. The sad truth is that students who need support plans are not getting them because their parents don't know how to play or to use, or do not have the time to play or to use, the system. Couple this with institutional racism and it invites opportunity hoarding and failure to support students of color. It is nauseating.
     
    Auriaprottu, Dr. Wankler, russ and 2 others repped this.
  13. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    An A for one semester out of eight isn't going to have much of an effect on the overall GPA. If you took eight tests in a class, got 75 on seven of them and 95 on one, you'd still get a C. If you scored 85 on seven, you'd still get a B. Now, that's not perfect accounting for grades, because we don't know how many classes/semester or that each class is worth the same credits, but you get the idea.

    Nobody's gonna gain admission to a more selective university or get more scholly money because of this. And on the other side... It's April of your senior year. If you were going for your GED, you've already dropped out by now.
     
    Ismitje repped this.
  14. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    At the University of Michigan, students will permitted this quarter to decide which of their classes will be graded pass/fail, and which will receive letter grades. Better yet, they will make that decision after they see their letter grades.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My final is now cancelled, my group project is worth more for the final grade.

    I am not sure if that is a good trade off.
     
    Ismitje repped this.
  16. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That sucks. I hope you have a good group.
     
    Ismitje repped this.
  17. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Group projects suck, they are socialism at its worst. Which I write as as semi-socialist, but sometimes we gotta face the truth. They are why I am only a semi-socialist. After my first group project MBA class I skipped them all and did all the group projects myself. I guess I am also a semi-libertarian.
     
  18. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    In terms of anacdata-based probability, it is not.

    My teacher evaluations are generally higher because not only do I not assign group work, I actively dEnounce it in class. Most of my "active denunciation" digressions are received like "old man yelling at clouds" time, but with group work, I usually get multiple "amens" from the congregation.
     
    xtomx repped this.
  19. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A MEN - Nothing sucks more than having to carry the slackers to a common A
     
    MattR and Dr. Wankler repped this.
  20. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The part of group projects I've never bought is the argument that students should just suck it up, it's the real world, etc. No, it isn't. In my real world, people not doing a stick of work get called out and held to account. They don't just coast or just bring the rest of us down. They might also do that, but there are consequences.
     
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  21. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I work at UM. It's an excellent response to the disruption that would otherwise have cost students thousands of dollars in tuition because of problems not of their making.
     
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  22. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    When I was at university, the GPA average was 3.1 ... and the geezers scoffed at us, because standards had eroded so badly. It's what geezers do. We yell at clouds, and those damn modern universities.
     
    bungadiri repped this.
  23. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry to hop on my soapbox. I tend to have my defense of college students (who get a mostly bad rap as pampered sub-adults these days) pre-loaded and it jumps out sometimes.

    The good stuff behind my response: The best parts of my work days are the hours I get to spend talking to students (I just had online office hours during which I spoke to 20 in 2 hours) and honestly, almost to a person they've been frickin' awesome. Including the ones in extraordinarily difficult situations. The ones I love best are those who ask me how I am and how my family is before I get a chance to ask them that.
     
    Dr. Wankler and JohnR repped this.
  24. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    The talk of forgiving student loan debt is all well and good, but how about addressing and finding a solution for the real issue, which is how really costly is has become to go to school and get an education in the US?
     
    soccernutter repped this.

Share This Page