The Doping Thread

Discussion in 'Cycling' started by Dead Fingers, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. Dead Fingers

    Dead Fingers Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Get your fill of epo, steroids and amphetamines here. :p
     
  2. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Near Kamar-Taj
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reposting from the Spring Classics thread.

    I generally agree with this thinking, but here's the thing: we have no idea whether or not the high-altitude mountaineers dope. It's not like there's a doping control at Everst base camp (or that anyone even bothers). And to be honest, I am pretty sure that there are some climbers who do use some kind of performance enhancers that would be illegal in a place like the Tour.

    I worked with a guy who climbed in the .13s and knew a lot of the top climbers of the day. He said he was pretty sure some of them were on roids. Now, I'll grant you that this is 100% hearsay (and those were sport climbers/boulderers), but it makes a certain amount of sense. If you have guys in places like the Tour, where there are doping controls, still using it would make sense that some percentage of top-level climbers -- who participate in a sport where there are no doping controls -- using.

    Quite frankly, if EPO or CERA helps you get out of the 8000m+ death zone quicker, it makes you safer. The longer you spend on a big mountain, the more likely you will be exposed to some objective hazard. So if a substance helps you get out of there quicker, there would be a strong incentive to use it.

    Obviously using drugs doesn't compensate for a basic lack of mountaineering skills. If you aren't comfortable on steep, loose terrain climbing high over marginal gear in your double boots and crampons, then a hematocrit of 60% isn't going to help you one bit. Ditto if you don't understand how to move along a bergschrund or avoid an avalanche zone. But other things being equal, I can see there being a strong incentive for a skilled alpinist to use something like that, and I would be highly surprised if at least a few didn't. As far as I know it's never been addressed in the U.S. climbing media.

    To be honest, I'm not sure whether I think this is right or wrong, particularly in the case of mountaineering.
     
  3. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. As for whether the riders are using the drugs to go faster or survive - its faster, they want to win, make more money, and have a longer career.

    What is sad is I have heard amateur, over 35 guys are also doping - to win trophies? Now that is exceptionally sad.
     
  4. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Near Kamar-Taj
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I've said, I'm kind of ambivalent about doping in competitive sports, what with the potential for an unfair advantage and all that. If the rules prohibit doping, then anyone who dopes should be punished. When I got pulled over speeding once the cop asked me if I wanted to contest the ticket. I told him I didn't because I was speeding. I got caught, plain and simple.

    As to whether or not doping should be prohibited, I honestly don't know what I think about this. On the one hand, you have people like Johan Neeskens argue that we're all dopers because we all use aspirin, caffeine or whatever. I don't really buy that because there are quantitative differences between aspiring and CERA. On the other hand, there is something to be said for preserving the purity of competition, regardless of whether or not people have cheated in the past.

    I see both sides of the argument, although in my perfect world nobody would dope.
     
  5. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I suppose it would make sense for sport climbers and boulderers to use performance doping since their discipline does rely a lot on powerful moves. Alpine style climbing is more about endurance with considerably more exposure and natural hazard. At home in my office I've got shelves littered with mountaineering history books and amphetamine was mentioned around pre-war climbing but was generally dismissed for the obvious side effects. What was recurring was the use of weed and downers. The reasons given for there use was nausea and to help sleep. Clearly not performance enhancers at all but it would be interesting to see some stats on the subject.

    It happened withing the past six months to a USSF Masters racer and I believe he was about 40 years old. Some people have to much ego to fall back into riding bikes for fun again.
     
  6. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
  7. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Near Kamar-Taj
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like he's admitted to this instance, acknowledged having what sounds like a rather severe case of clinical depression and retired from the sport.

    I don't condone the doping, but I do feel for the guy when it comes to the depression. Hope he gets the help he needs.

    Without doubt, he was a tough racer. He may have been doping during the 03 Giro, but finishing with a broken collarbone indicates a lot of fortitude imo.
     
  8. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What a damn shame as he was truly a talented cyclist. The depression does suck though and hopefully he works through it. I'll say that through the article I see Michael Ball of Rock Racing as less of a scumbag then I originally thought. For once a team owner does not turn his back on his rider but actually takes some of the blame for Tyler making a bad choice.
     
  9. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good luck Ty.


    I must have missed when he got divorced. What was the story on that?
     
  10. Dead Fingers

    Dead Fingers Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
  11. Dead Fingers

    Dead Fingers Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
  12. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Olympics were almost a year ago. Pretty weak if you ask me.
     
  13. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Honestly are either of you surprised at the continuous failings of the system. The Olympics as you said were nearly a year ago and they are just now finding something?:confused: As I've said before and I'll say again, if you throw enough crap at the wall, sooner or later something is bound to stick.
     
  14. Dead Fingers

    Dead Fingers Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Oh, I agree, their consistency is for shit. I am sure there are still dopers in the peloton, but their methods scream Banana Republic.

    Phil L. even was rather disappointed in the IOC
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/apr09/apr29news2

    "I've no sympathy for the guilty but we were promised results in January and what angers me is that only the cyclist's name has come out," he said. "Cycling seems to be the easy sport to kick around. Of course there were some very questionable performances at the Olympics, from a lot of sports.

    "It's up to the IOC to come out and name names but once again it's one rule for cycling and one rule for everyone else," he added. "If the news on this rider is correct, then it calls into question all of his results from the last year and it raises the question whether they're still testing for CERA. Cycling pays for its honesty."​
     
  15. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I touched on some of what Phil stated in the Classic's thread and must reiterate I completely agree with what he is saying. The process is a joke and the organizations an even bigger joke. How can we take them seriously when they can't even sort themselves out?
     
  16. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Dead Fingers

    Dead Fingers Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    You know, I never liked the guy. I find him such a smug bastard, but, with the coke, there is probably some addiction problems. I do hope he can come to terms with it.
     
  18. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    probably is an addition issue. Hopefully he can take care of that, but I think a few months in prison is what he is facing.
     
  19. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    For use? That seems a bit harsh especially for Europe in fact that sounds awfully American. I never understood riders like Pantani, now Boonen with the coke and Ulrich with the extasy wanting an upper of sorts when not competing. I would figure that spending that much time with your heart rate increased to such high levels that you would not seek something more mellow. Good luck to Boonen in that I hopes he takes care of what could really be a bad problem.
     
  20. Gorando

    Gorando Member

    Mar 12, 2008
    Belgium
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    On Belgian Tv Boonen said he doesn't remember that he used cocaine because he had a black out after drinking too much alcohol. lol
     
  21. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What an Einstein:D
     
  22. cjump

    cjump Member

    Jul 31, 2006
    North Carolina
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Dead Fingers

    Dead Fingers Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Interesting ruling.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/may09/may11news3
    Alejandro Valverde received a two-year suspension from the Italian anti-doping tribunal today in Rome for his connections to the 2006 doping investigation Operación Puerto. The decision prohibits the Spaniard, 29, from racing in Italy and the Tour de France, which passes through the country this year.
     
  24. cjump

    cjump Member

    Jul 31, 2006
    North Carolina
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    has he tested positive? thats a pretty harsh ruling because it bars him from the TdF. feel bad for him but not for dopers.
     

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